J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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#1870003 21-Sep-2017 09:49

tdgeek:

Im still undecided. It started out as good policies from both sides. But it has deteriorated to the lesser evil from both sides as well as what I see positive on both sides. Either way, "I like that, but ouch, not that"

I can very much relate to this.

I will be voting for what I perceive to be the "least bad" option this year.

networkn

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#1870008 21-Sep-2017 09:54

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

Interesting you take such a one sided stance on that. I have seen plenty going back the other way too. Not just on this forum. Plenty was said, especially earlier on in the election about Bill English and how boring he was and the choice of clothing and how he looked.

National billboards in our area have been defaced. Some were done at some expense, because they purchased stickers the exact same clue colours as the billboard and carefully overlaid Delivery "Child Poverty" and a few other things as well.

networkn

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#1870009 21-Sep-2017 09:55

6FIEND:

tdgeek:

Im still undecided. It started out as good policies from both sides. But it has deteriorated to the lesser evil from both sides as well as what I see positive on both sides. Either way, "I like that, but ouch, not that"

I can very much relate to this.

I will be voting for what I perceive to be the "least bad" option this year.

I hear this from voters every election. People have a low opinion of politicians and politics in general. Not just in NZ, but esp in the USA, where so many people I spoke to said "I will pick the less evil choice, but it's a close run thing".

MikeB4

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#1870036 21-Sep-2017 10:19

It does not matter for whom one votes for, no matter what party or what individual on the 24th of September they will all be hit with electoral amnesia

networkn

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#1870037 21-Sep-2017 10:21

MikeB4:

It does not matter for whom one votes for, no matter what party or what individual on the 24th of September they will all be hit with electoral amnesia

How uncharacteristically cynical of you.

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#1870040 21-Sep-2017 10:24

Really, if they were corporations they would all end up facing the Commerce Commission.

tdgeek

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#1870048 21-Sep-2017 10:31

networkn:

6FIEND:

tdgeek:

Im still undecided. It started out as good policies from both sides. But it has deteriorated to the lesser evil from both sides as well as what I see positive on both sides. Either way, "I like that, but ouch, not that"

I can very much relate to this.

I will be voting for what I perceive to be the "least bad" option this year.

I hear this from voters every election. People have a low opinion of politicians and politics in general. Not just in NZ, but esp in the USA, where so many people I spoke to said "I will pick the less evil choice, but it's a close run thing".

Id blame that on the campaign. Too much focus on bagging the other and not enough on what we can offer. If it was a positive campaign, I can say that I prefer A over B. B is ok or good, A is better. In a negative campaign, doubts get bandied about by both sides against both sides, and we tend to look at those, and have a range of bad issues that we need to decide what we dont want, rather than what we do want.

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jonathan18

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#1870063 21-Sep-2017 10:45

networkn:

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

Interesting you take such a one sided stance on that. I have seen plenty going back the other way too. Not just on this forum. Plenty was said, especially earlier on in the election about Bill English and how boring he was and the choice of clothing and how he looked.

National billboards in our area have been defaced. Some were done at some expense, because they purchased stickers the exact same clue colours as the billboard and carefully overlaid Delivery "Child Poverty" and a few other things as well.

Nah, I'm not talking about childish things like picking on someone for their clothes or defacing billboards.

My comment was in response in part to your bilious post re Clark, Cullen and co - the level of hatred expressed in that post is, in my opinion, simply irrational and over-the-top, and speaks more of a fundamental distrust if not fear of anything that that's not deep blue in colour.

Too much of the political debate in NZ focuses on the surface, and much of the engagement is less about the policies themselves than simply posturing - my post here is an example of trying to counter this, by injecting some actual evidence into the discussion regarding paid parental leave - many people engaged in that discussion didn't have a clue what they were saying, and rather than bother spending a couple of minutes looking up the actual reality preferred to continue to engage in some childish political ping pong battle.

I think a key advantage of moving to a four year term is extending out the timeframe between these sh!tfights, especially since partisanship and quality of arguments seem to be getting worse over time...

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#1870089 21-Sep-2017 10:59

networkn:

Rikkitic:

networkn:

I predict if Labour is elected, you will see a completely different side of JA. I think there is something... darker lurking under that smile. There is a real edge to her tone from time to time.

I find it quite amusing how you manage to oscillate between 'she might be okay with more experience' and 'she has gone over to the dark side'. You just don't like her, you especially don't like Labour, but you won't admit it because you want to keep up a pretense of being even-handed. Just face up to it. You are a National voter through and through.

Heh, I am not sure where in any world I have suggested I would consider voting Labour at this election? I am a National voter until I see enough policies that Labour put together that would compete. Their employment policies which affect 150,000 (minimum) employers is a significant problem. There are lots of others I have talked about during this thread and others.

I don't recall saying she has gone to the dark side? I said I think she "has" a dark side (do you disagree?). Another comprehension failure on your part. If you are going to continue to take pot shots, could you take an extra second or two and read what I (actually) write?

My comprehension is fine. I know exactly what you are saying.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

networkn

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#1870208 21-Sep-2017 12:40

jonathan18:

Nah, I'm not talking about childish things like picking on someone for their clothes or defacing billboards.

It starts there.

My comment was in response in part to your bilious post re Clark, Cullen and co - the level of hatred expressed in that post is, in my opinion, simply irrational and over-the-top, and speaks more of a fundamental distrust if not fear of anything that that's not deep blue in colour.

Too much of the political debate in NZ focuses on the surface, and much of the engagement is less about the policies themselves than simply posturing - my post here is an example of trying to counter this, by injecting some actual evidence into the discussion regarding paid parental leave - many people engaged in that discussion didn't have a clue what they were saying, and rather than bother spending a couple of minutes looking up the actual reality preferred to continue to engage in some childish political ping pong battle.

I think a key advantage of moving to a four year term is extending out the timeframe between these sh!tfights, especially since partisanship and quality of arguments seem to be getting worse over time...

Well, I can see why you'd feel that it was over the top, it was a slight exaggeration I'll admit, but not too much. I *strongly* dislike(d) HC, and MC. If you think I am the only one, then you could have just seen the number of cars with bumper stickers with "Go Helen! And never come back", not to mention conversations I overheard or was party to, that were a *lot* worse.

I am quite happy to (and have done MANY times this election) talk about policy. Discussions around JA's personal ability to lead the country are natural, esp since really, the huge bump in Labour came just days after she took the leadership.

Your assessment that I have an irrational distrust of anything non blue is completely incorrect. I don't care what colour the party is, so long as I feel they are doing what's right for the country. National is far from perfect, but they are far far ahead of Labour. The employment policies alone are awful. Education is terrible (no plans to trade free education for a required stint in NZ working as the qualifications the tax payers paid you to get is unbelievable). I don't disagree with the water tax, or cancellation of tax cuts, they just needed to get the messaging (As in actually have had defined policies) right about it, and when they back peddled THAT should have been handled better. I am far from the only one with that opinion clearly.

JA is the only difference between Labour 5 months ago and now. People wouldn't have even considered voting Labour into power back then, yet feel that 1 personnel change is all it takes. THIS I have a major problem with. With the exception of Grant Robertson, how many other Labour members have been seen in the past 5 weeks? Next to none. JA knows that people didn't want those people running Goverment 7 weeks ago and she is keeping them away from the public, because she knows she is more likeable.

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#1870210 21-Sep-2017 12:41

Rikkitic:

My comprehension is fine. I know exactly what you are saying.

The evidence overwhelmingly proves otherwise.

Pumpedd

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#1870212 21-Sep-2017 12:44

Something I have noticed is the massive amount of advertising Labour is doing. I see way more labour adverts on TV than National, yet I thought LAbour didnt have much money.

Maybe the Unions have stumped up with some more cash.

tdgeek

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#1870235 21-Sep-2017 13:11

Pumpedd:

Something I have noticed is the massive amount of advertising Labour is doing. I see way more labour adverts on TV than National, yet I thought LAbour didnt have much money.

Maybe the Unions have stumped up with some more cash.

They got a lot of donations when she turned up. Unlike @networkn I see many JA billboards defaced. Actually de faced!

networkn

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#1870247 21-Sep-2017 13:30

tdgeek:

Pumpedd:

Something I have noticed is the massive amount of advertising Labour is doing. I see way more labour adverts on TV than National, yet I thought LAbour didnt have much money.

Maybe the Unions have stumped up with some more cash.

They got a lot of donations when she turned up. Unlike @networkn I see many JA billboards defaced. Actually de faced!

For the record, I actively condemn anyone defacing anyone's billboards. I think it's deplorable.

I'd also like to state for the record, that whilst I don't think JA is suited to PM right now, I don't doubt her genuine belief she is trying to do what is right for NZ. I just happen to disagree with her methods and policies. I wonder what Labours policies would look like if any of them had run small or medium business in New Zealand.

sen8or

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#1870272 21-Sep-2017 14:30

Much like Nationals I'd imagine......

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