J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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Forums › Politics › J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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Networkn
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#1870331 21-Sep-2017 15:23

If for example National were to be able to lead alone, I'd still like to see BE extend an hand to the Greens, and Maori party to see if a partnership can be formed. The minor parties won't have much bargaining power, but it will really show to me Greens are dead if they refuse it. Whilst I understand they have vastly different agendas, National needs the Greens a little to help them with environmental policies, and the Greens need to show they can behave like adults and work with others, in order to get some of their priority policies given some attention. Sadly Shaw has shown exceptionally poor judgement this election and I don't expect that to improve.

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#1870334 21-Sep-2017 15:26

jonathan18:

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

@jonathan18 May I ask what you thought of Kelvin Davis comments toward National here:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-labours-deputy-kelvin-davis-launches-into-scathing-review-national-mps

Geektastic

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#1870335 21-Sep-2017 15:27

Pumpedd:

Something I have noticed is the massive amount of advertising Labour is doing. I see way more labour adverts on TV than National, yet I thought LAbour didnt have much money.

Maybe the Unions have stumped up with some more cash.

I was staying in an hotel in Wellington last night and they left the Dom Post under the door.

I was surprised to see a full front page advert for Labour with Mzz Ahern gurning at me (enough to put anyone off their breakfast IMV) under the Dom Post masthead.

It really looked as though the DP was making an editorial statement, despite text at the bottom stating it was an advert. Seemed rather fishy to me.

Rikkitic

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#1870339 21-Sep-2017 15:29

networkn:

JA is the only difference between Labour 5 months ago and now. People wouldn't have even considered voting Labour into power back then, yet feel that 1 personnel change is all it takes. THIS I have a major problem with. With the exception of Grant Robertson, how many other Labour members have been seen in the past 5 weeks? Next to none. JA knows that people didn't want those people running Goverment 7 weeks ago and she is keeping them away from the public, because she knows she is more likeable.

I think you are missing a point here. I mentioned it before but will repeat for your benefit. A difference in leader, especially one as different as this one, has a huge effect on the entire party and its supporters, even if the policies stay exactly the same (which of course they don't). One won't interpret, prioritise and implement them the same way the other would. One will be better than the other at persuading the recalcitrant to accept things they don't like. People object to 'personality politics' USA style, but politics are all about personality, unless you are living in the time of the Soviet Union. That is what the Jacinda effect is, and it shouldn't be underestimated.

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Pumpedd

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#1870340 21-Sep-2017 15:30

networkn:

jonathan18:

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

@jonathan18 May I ask what you thought of Kelvin Davis comments toward National here:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-labours-deputy-kelvin-davis-launches-into-scathing-review-national-mps

Labour will ditch Davis if they get elected. He is such a loose canon and agitator. In fact a lot will change if she has to deal with Winston. I would imagine Winston will have Willy, Kelvin and a few others in his cross hairs. She will have no choice. She will also call Winston first cause she cannot afford to have the Greens in a coalition as she could not afford them fiscally speaking. Taxes would need to rise.

Rikkitic

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#1870342 21-Sep-2017 15:32

Pumpedd:

Something I have noticed is the massive amount of advertising Labour is doing. I see way more labour adverts on TV than National, yet I thought LAbour didnt have much money.

Maybe the Unions have stumped up with some more cash.

Just the opposite for me. I was starting to wonder where Labour had gone but now I see they are running daily ads in the local paper. They may have been saving up for the end sprint.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

jonathan18

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#1870351 21-Sep-2017 15:42

networkn:
jonathan18:

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

@jonathan18 May I ask what you thought of Kelvin Davis comments toward National here:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-labours-deputy-kelvin-davis-launches-into-scathing-review-national-mps

Oh, don’t worry, I’m an equal opportunities basher - his comments were mildly amusing but essentially childish and totally unnecessary. I’m way more unconvinced in relation to Davis’ ability to do his job (as either deputy leader or deputy PM) than I am JA’s. His appointment was a classic attempt to keep various factions happy, notably that he represents both the Maori caucus and the conservative side of the party. While I understand that, that’s certainly no assurance he has the skills needed to do the job properly.

But, again, you’re moving away from my point - to reiterate I was talking about posts here on GZ. I understand Davis has a role to play within the game that is politics, and at that point he was trying out “attack dog” for size. What’s your excuse in dabbling in the same type of over-the-top character assasination?

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networkn

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#1870370 21-Sep-2017 16:19

jonathan18:
networkn:

jonathan18:

The level of vitriol spewed forth against Labour and some of its politicians on this forum is a worry, whatever wrapper it comes in - to me these kinds of posts come across as somewhat irrational and obsessive, like slightly less offensive versions of Whale Oil fanboi posts.

@jonathan18 May I ask what you thought of Kelvin Davis comments toward National here:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-labours-deputy-kelvin-davis-launches-into-scathing-review-national-mps

Oh, don’t worry, I’m an equal opportunities basher - his comments were mildly amusing but essentially childish and totally unnecessary. I’m way more unconvinced in relation to Davis’ ability to do his job (as either deputy leader or deputy PM) than I am JA’s. His appointment was a classic attempt to keep various factions happy, notably that he represents both the Maori caucus and the conservative side of the party. While I understand that, that’s certainly no assurance he has the skills needed to do the job properly.

But, again, you’re moving away from my point - to reiterate I was talking about posts here on GZ. I understand Davis has a role to play within the game that is politics, and at that point he was trying out “attack dog” for size. What’s your excuse in dabbling in the same type of over-the-top character assasination?

Heh, interesting you find his comments mildly amusing but mine over the top character assassination? Doesn't make you sound biased at all. I am assuming you are speaking of my comments toward Helen Clark and Michael Cullen?

I have questioned JA's experience and mused about whether she is being entirely sincere at times. That's pretty much it. I can't imagine you having a problem with that.

I also agree about KD's appointment as co-leader and have very serious doubts as to his ability to do his job. I notice he has been pretty much invisible since his comments. I wasn't too impressed at JA's lack of response to it, considering her 'relentless positivity' position. It was a massive missed chance to show some actual leadership.

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#1870372 21-Sep-2017 16:26

If you are still looking at voting Labour you need to take Jacinda out of the equation. They ARE the same party they were 2 months ago. Nothing has changed except leader and Little is still there. The Unions are still there, they have the same policies.

Jacinda's vision is new...whatever that is....

tdgeek

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#1870377 21-Sep-2017 16:36

I cant find last nights final leaders debate on Stuff or FB, it has the others but not last nights, anybody have a link?

Rikkitic

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#1870393 21-Sep-2017 17:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-W3Fgh1AR0

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tdgeek

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#1870395 21-Sep-2017 17:08

Rikkitic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-W3Fgh1AR0

Thank you (again)

bmt

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#1870543 21-Sep-2017 22:34

networkn:

JA is the only difference between Labour 5 months ago and now. People wouldn't have even considered voting Labour into power back then, yet feel that 1 personnel change is all it takes. THIS I have a major problem with. With the exception of Grant Robertson, how many other Labour members have been seen in the past 5 weeks? Next to none. JA knows that people didn't want those people running Goverment 7 weeks ago and she is keeping them away from the public, because she knows she is more likeable.

This is a Bill vs Jacinda election campaign. National's MPs have been equally invisible. Where has Paula Bennett been since suggesting certain people should have less human rights? They took a risk letting her out in public and she completely blew it, now she's back to hiding. A complete liability.

bmt

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#1870545 21-Sep-2017 22:36

networkn:

bmt:

For sure its a privilege not a right.. now. Baby boomers did not grow up with the same belief.

Not sure what point you are trying to make?

Late reply from a few pages back, I only come here at night!

My point is that for baby boomers who already own a house or three, it's very easy to sit smugly on a high horse and claim that housing is a privilege and not a right. And then promptly increase rents "to match the market" :)

Wiggum

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#1870643 22-Sep-2017 08:11

bmt:

Late reply from a few pages back, I only come here at night!

My point is that for baby boomers who already own a house or three, it's very easy to sit smugly on a high horse and claim that housing is a privilege and not a right. And then promptly increase rents "to match the market" :)

Please. My parents etc worked very hard in their lives to own what they own now. That came with huge sacrifices, and lots of hard work. Yet you making out that they had life very easy.

Millennials have it far easier today than what our parents and grandparents had. Change of the entitlement attitude of Millennials will fix most of the problem.

Get a life.

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