Marijuana legalization in New Zealand

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Awrrr
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#1995912 14-Apr-2018 09:31

I haven't touched the stuff for nearly 50 years. No particular reason, just haven't felt the need, even though I did live most of that time in Amsterdam. That is how 'addictive' it is. I am strongly in favour of legalisation because keeping it illegal is such patent, superstitious, vested interest nonsense. It is a huge injustice for those who get caught. Politicians here should quit chasing reefer madness phantoms and focus on some real issues.

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#1995913 14-Apr-2018 09:33

Rikkitic:

I haven't touched the stuff for nearly 50 years. No particular reason, just haven't felt the need, even though I did live most of that time in Amsterdam. That is how 'addictive' it is. I am strongly in favour of legalisation because keeping it illegal is such patent, superstitious, vested interest nonsense. It is a huge injustice for those who get caught. Politicians here should quit chasing reefer madness phantoms and focus on some real issues.

Agreed and I come back to my baseline: you simply cannot justify alcohol being legal and yet make pot illegal.

elpenguino

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#1996080 14-Apr-2018 15:05

Totally agree geektastic. Logically that position is strong.

Unfortunately, the issue became clouded by middle class panic.
Have you seen reefer madness?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#1996108 14-Apr-2018 15:44

elpenguino: Totally agree geektastic. Logically that position is strong.

Unfortunately, the issue became clouded by middle class panic.
Have you seen reefer madness?

Yes. Did you watch the video I linked to a few pages back? It tells a fairly interesting story about why the panic was stirred up!

Rikkitic

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#2000710 22-Apr-2018 17:26

D'oh.

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#2005782 1-May-2018 10:48

Rikkitic:

D'oh.

Who would have seen this coming?/s

I think the problem with cannabis use is the stereotype surrounding it, IMHO people have been taught when they think of regular cannabis users they conjure up images of lazy people sitting at home on some sort of government hand out doing nothing with their lives when in reality from what I have seen growing up it's more like people who are in full time work who like to either smoke up when they get home from work or smoke up on the weekends they often quite when they get married and have kids.

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Fred99

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#2005813 1-May-2018 11:06

Rikkitic:

D'oh.

Just for clarification, that's not referring to synthetic marijuana "legal highs" etc.

I believe that of the reported hospitalisations and deaths, many were for dangerous and novel synthetic drugs being sold as MDMA (ecstasy) or LSD. I believe that in many cases those who may have taken the drugs were conned into believing that they were what the sellers claimed they were, and most probably wouldn't have touched the drugs if they'd known the truth.

Regardless of views on general recreational drug legalisation, sellers of those drugs - claiming that they are something much less harmful - should face extremely severe penalties.

networkn

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#2005814 1-May-2018 11:08

Fred99:

Rikkitic:

D'oh.

Just for clarification, that's not referring to synthetic marijuana "legal highs" etc.

I believe that of the reported hospitalisations and deaths, many were for dangerous and novel synthetic drugs being sold as MDMA (ecstasy) or LSD. I believe that in many cases those who may have taken the drugs were conned into believing that they were what the sellers claimed they were, and most probably wouldn't have touched the drugs if they'd known the truth.

Regardless of views on general recreational drug legalisation, sellers of those drugs - claiming that they are something much less harmful - should face extremely severe penalties.

Given the high profile it's got lately, it seems there have been next to no convictions or even charges for those who sold these drugs to these kids/people. Certainly not widely reported if it was.

Fred99

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#2005859 1-May-2018 12:01

networkn:

Fred99:

Rikkitic:

D'oh.

Just for clarification, that's not referring to synthetic marijuana "legal highs" etc.

I believe that of the reported hospitalisations and deaths, many were for dangerous and novel synthetic drugs being sold as MDMA (ecstasy) or LSD. I believe that in many cases those who may have taken the drugs were conned into believing that they were what the sellers claimed they were, and most probably wouldn't have touched the drugs if they'd known the truth.

Regardless of views on general recreational drug legalisation, sellers of those drugs - claiming that they are something much less harmful - should face extremely severe penalties.

Given the high profile it's got lately, it seems there have been next to no convictions or even charges for those who sold these drugs to these kids/people. Certainly not widely reported if it was.

There have been arrests, charges laid, and there has been coverage in the media - for example:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/102124143/deadly-new-nethylpentylone-drug-ring-busted-as-police-seize-405k-luxury-cars-and-6kg-of-drugs-in-wellington-sting

I suppose though that proving beyond reasonable doubt that a pill came from a particular seller won't ever be easy while there's a thriving black market, and there's enough money changing hands to make "narcing" an extremely risky prospect, and even someone who'd been a victim of drug substitution and hospitalised as a result might be less than forthcoming about exactly what happened.
Test kits are allowed to be legally sold in NZ - which seems sensible. What I'm not sure of though is that if a drug such as the one above is sold as MDMA, then if it contains a trace of MDMA it may test positive as the real thing (AFAIK those tests don't give a quantitative result) but not detect the dangerous adulterant. Then the kits are kind of expensive, it looks like they're a bit tricky to use and interpret results. I can't imagine that if buying a couple of MDMA tablets at a function, pulling out a test kit in public would be a great move. The drugs are also being sold to teenagers, biologically predisposed to think they're infallible and happy to take risks.

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#2006084 1-May-2018 15:44

RNZ is currently running a series on the meth epidemic that has permeated every aspect of our society. It is a genuine crisis, a tragedy, and it is only getting worse.

I don’t have stats at hand but I have seen reports that drug use has actually declined wherever it has been decriminalised. I think Portugal is the main example of this. Logic suggests that this makes sense. If there is no longer any profit in supplying drugs, there is also no longer any incentive to encourage others to start using them.

Where drugs have been decriminalised, civilisation hasn’t collapsed. Life has pretty much carried on as before, except with less crime.

Countries like ours have been trying the repressive approach to drug abuse for decades. It clearly hasn’t worked. The meth epidemic is proof enough of that. Maybe it is time to try something else, something that has already been shown to work elsewhere.

The black market for synthetic drugs exists because people who don’t know better and don’t care are determined to get high by any means and they will seek whatever is readily available. Did this situation come about because far less hazardous cannabis was not so readily available? If it was would they be content with that? Would it not be worth finding out?

Unlike cannabis, meth is truly dangerous stuff. It is causing enormous, irreversible harm to individuals and the society they are part of. Yet cannabis cultivation and use continues to be pursued with vigour by the police and courts. All the resources, money, personnel, helicopters and who knows what that could go into prevention and rehabilitation instead continue to be diverted to a harmless, but fast-growing weed. This is like the emergency services being sent to confiscate sparklers while houses are being consumed by a raging bush fire.

Why are our politicians so stuck on an approach which has so emphatically been shown not to work? Is it because they are afraid that if they open the floodgates it will just make things worse?

Well, I have news for them: Things are already worse.

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#2019504 20-May-2018 19:54

Rikkitic:

RNZ is currently running a series on the meth epidemic that has permeated every aspect of our society. It is a genuine crisis, a tragedy, and it is only getting worse.

I don’t have stats at hand but I have seen reports that drug use has actually declined wherever it has been decriminalised. I think Portugal is the main example of this. Logic suggests that this makes sense. If there is no longer any profit in supplying drugs, there is also no longer any incentive to encourage others to start using them.

Where drugs have been decriminalised, civilisation hasn’t collapsed. Life has pretty much carried on as before, except with less crime.

Countries like ours have been trying the repressive approach to drug abuse for decades. It clearly hasn’t worked. The meth epidemic is proof enough of that. Maybe it is time to try something else, something that has already been shown to work elsewhere.

The black market for synthetic drugs exists because people who don’t know better and don’t care are determined to get high by any means and they will seek whatever is readily available. Did this situation come about because far less hazardous cannabis was not so readily available? If it was would they be content with that? Would it not be worth finding out?

Unlike cannabis, meth is truly dangerous stuff. It is causing enormous, irreversible harm to individuals and the society they are part of. Yet cannabis cultivation and use continues to be pursued with vigour by the police and courts. All the resources, money, personnel, helicopters and who knows what that could go into prevention and rehabilitation instead continue to be diverted to a harmless, but fast-growing weed. This is like the emergency services being sent to confiscate sparklers while houses are being consumed by a raging bush fire.

Why are our politicians so stuck on an approach which has so emphatically been shown not to work? Is it because they are afraid that if they open the floodgates it will just make things worse?

Well, I have news for them: Things are already worse.

I agree. Once we legalise we can test drugs for safety to reduce fatalities.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/national/act/more-pill-testing-at-festivals-on-the-cards-after-canberra-success-20180503-p4zd6i.html

Quite interesting that they are now voluntarily testing illicit drugs for free at Canberra's music festivals.

Apparently they've already found lethal substances in some of the tested drugs.

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#2019588 21-May-2018 07:59

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/103005848/Medicinal-cannabis-hopefuls-discuss-how-industry-should-roll-out

"Medicinal cannabis hopefuls discuss how industry should roll out"

Hikurangi Hemp wants to be one of the first producers of medicinal marijuana in New Zealand

Cannabis bought online and delivered to doorsteps in unmarked packaging by a security guard - that's what the purchase of medicinal cannabis in New Zealand could look like.

Parliament's Health Committee has received at least 25 submissions from organisations arguing how they would like the production, sale and use of cannabis as medicine to be regulated.

Companies that want to be the first producers and sellers of medicinal cannabis have started making noise, mounting commercial pressure on Parliament to enact the Misuse of Drugs (Medicinal Cannabis) Amendment Bill.

The creation of a new industry puts companies in a prime position to twist lawmakers' arms.

How a domestic medicinal cannabis industry would legally operate is largely untouched in the bill and will be debated by the committee before it is read in Parliament for a second time.

Two companies have publicised their intent to grow medicinal cannabis commercially, but, they are at odds over some issues.

Hikurangi Hemp, subsidiary of health company Hikurangi Group, grows and processes low-THC cannabis on private land near Gisborne.

It was the first company to say it wanted to sell its products to terminally ill patients if the Government legalised it.

Helius Therapeutics, an Auckland company started quietly last year by two former executives and a United States cannabis industry businessman, made its intentions to produce medicinal cannabis public this month.

Helius director Paul Manning said the company had intentionally kept a low profile but it was about to finalise investment deals totalling $15m.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12023501

Trio taking $5m bet on medicinal cannabis industry that doesn't exist yet

Advertising executive Paul Manning has closed the door on a lucrative role as the managing director of one of the nation's major ad agencies to take what is essentially a $5 million bet on a local industry that doesn't yet exist.

Leaving behind a staff of more than 100 employees at established ad business 99, Manning has walked into uncertain territory as he joins two other local entrepreneurs - Gavin Pook and JP Schmidt - at a little-known cannabis start-up called Helius Therapeutics.

Like Manning, the other two owners also come off the back of successful business careers, with Pook leading Red Bull New Zealand for five years and Schmidt working in the private equity and property investment space for years before committing to this challenge fulltime.

"We've all given up salaries and high-paying positions to do this and we're putting skin in the game" Manning tells the Weekend Herald.

"It's incredibly scary leaving the comfort of an amazing job as the managing director of one of the largest advertising agencies in the country. It's a lot to give up, but it's as exciting as it is scary. And, as they say, 'no guts, no glory'."

Adding further support to the team is the only international partner Matthew Rhoden, who, having founded and operated several medicinal cannabis businesses in the United States, will lend his experience, specialist knowledge and intellectual property to the local trio.

Although cannabis is often associated with the image of a care-free hippies living off the land, Manning stressed that legitimacy in the industry doesn't come cheap.

"The barriers to entry for a business forming and coming into this space as Helius are incredibly high," said Manning, who last year celebrated his 40th birthday.

"You're talking north of $5 million just to create the facility before you even get under way with any cultivation."

A major contributing factor to this expense is Helius' objective to attain Good Manufacturing Practice (GMP) certification, which is recognised as the international gold standard in the development of food and medical products.

MikeAqua

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#2019739 21-May-2018 12:49

Adoption of cannabis as a mainstream pharma ingredient will eventually mean the active ingredients (or the 'warhead' of each one) is simply synthesised. No growers required.

Mike

kingdragonfly

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#2019858 21-May-2018 15:00

Not necessarily.

Just like perfume manufacturers still use a lot of natural ingredients even though they're no shortage of synthetic compounds.

I remember various researchers trying to emulate the stink of an American skunk musk. One was by the Israeli military trying to weaponize the stink as a weapon, and a completely different set of researchers trying to create a cleaning product to get rid of the skunk smell.

As you can imagine neither wanted to "go to the source" and get natural skunk stink.

While they knew the active ingredients, they could never make skunk stink as strong or as long-lasting as the real stuff sprayed by skunks.

SepticSceptic

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#2029833 5-Jun-2018 14:01

Newspaper headlines - NZ Herald, conscious, or un-conscious bias ?

A couple of weeks ago, the print edition, a couple of pages in:

"Votes Euthanasia and Dope Referendums to come"

on the Mobile website:

"votes on Euthanasia and Weed Referendums to come"

Needless to say, current searches on the web site now show:

"Votes on Euthanasia and Cannabis Referendums to come"

Now, in my mind, putting "dope" in the print edition, and weed in the website is really re-inforcing reefer mania hysteria and adds nothing to any rationalised discourse. Why not use the proper terms?

After all, would the Herald have headlined "Votes on legalised murder and dope to come" ?

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