The Prime Minister and the waitress

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Forums › Politics › The Prime Minister and the waitress

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#1289313 22-Apr-2015 13:51

networkn:
Handle9:
DaveB:
jonathan18:
Kudos to the woman for speaking out, as how common is it for such behaviour in these circumstances to go unreported, whether it be relatively minor or something like rape...

Actually, she hasn't spoken out yet. She is hiding behind an anonymous post. She/He/It could be anybody at this stage. IF she/he/it is serious, then they should be reporting this to the police rather than trying to get political mileage from this, because that Left W(r)ing Blog is just that - a political blog, no more, no less.

Until such time as this becomes factual, I shall reserve personal judgement.

I think the fact that Key has apologised confirms that it's factual.

People apologise for making people uncomfortable even if they don't feel they did anything wrong.

He could easily dispute some or all of the facts, but apologise because he is sorry he upset her.

You're right. We don't have all of the facts, so much of what has been written here is merely pointless conjecture.

The bottom line is that if the woman in question is seriously concerned, then she needs to report this to the Police as an assault and leave the media (including Facebook!) out of this.

networkn

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#1289314 22-Apr-2015 13:52

jonathan18:
Zeon: The girl is stupid for going to the media with this. When her name comes out it will be forever found on search engines and that would be a person I wouldn't employ. If he continually did it after she said stop maybe but he stopped. I don't really think anything different of John Key. Note I didn't vote for him at the last election either...

Even your decision (deliberate or otherwise) to call her a 'girl' says something to me about your attitude (unless you do know that she was something like 16?). An example showing NZ really hasn't moved on that far from the "good ol' days" (when men could be men, and really it was all just a bit of playful fun) as I wish it had...

Oh boy. Really?

freitasm

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#1289327 22-Apr-2015 13:54

Would your wife accept that someone walked to her and pulled her hair, at different occasions, even after being told to stop?

No, didn't think so.

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#1289329 22-Apr-2015 13:56

jonathan18:
Zeon: The girl is stupid for going to the media with this. When her name comes out it will be forever found on search engines and that would be a person I wouldn't employ. If he continually did it after she said stop maybe but he stopped. I don't really think anything different of John Key. Note I didn't vote for him at the last election either...

Even your decision (deliberate or otherwise) to call her a 'girl' says something to me about your attitude (unless you do know that she was something like 16?). An example showing NZ really hasn't moved on that far from the "good ol' days" (when men could be men, and really it was all just a bit of playful fun) as I wish it had...

Yep, too many still believe they don't need to keep their hands to themselves and that silly little girls should just accept it.

For the record I believe it wold be just as inappropriate if it were gender reversed.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#1289330 22-Apr-2015 13:56

freitasm: Would you accept if anyone walked to your wife, at different occasions, and pulled her hair even after being told to stop?

No, didn't think so.

No, I wouldn't be happy about it, however, would I suggest they resign over it, of course not. An apology and acknowledgement it made her uncomfortable would more than suffice. Having been with her 20 years, I know she would feel the same way.

MikeB4

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#1289331 22-Apr-2015 13:57

freitasm: Would your wife accept that someone walked to her and pulled her hair, at different occasions, even after being told to stop?

No, didn't think so.

If someone did this to my wife they had better be wearing a Cricket batsman box, she is very adept at well directed kicks

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1289333 22-Apr-2015 13:59

networkn:
freitasm: Would you accept if anyone walked to your wife, at different occasions, and pulled her hair even after being told to stop?

No, didn't think so.

No, I wouldn't be happy about it, however, would I suggest they resign over it, of course not. An apology and acknowledgement it made her uncomfortable would more than suffice. Having been with her 20 years, I know she would feel the same way.

See? I never said anything about resignation but now you got to the crux of the problem. It is not acceptable behaviour. You wouldn't accept it either.

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#1289335 22-Apr-2015 14:00

surfisup1000:
KiwiNZ:
surfisup1000: Jeez, what a bunch of hysteria.

Sure, it seems silly and a little inappropriate (the pm should know better) but it is hardly the crime of the century.

It is PC gone mad to equate this to an assault.

It is 'nanny state brigade' type thinking that want to treat any case of personal space invasion as a crime.

Its nothing to do with that silly Nanny state escapism rubbish. It is about inappropriate uninvited behaviour from a leader and role model. It is wrong and unacceptable.

Yes, and I said it was inappropriate but to call this an assault is the same thinking behind nanny-stateism.

Well perform this simple thought experiment...

What would happen to you if you repeatedly pulled a female police officer's ponytail?

jonathan18

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#1289341 22-Apr-2015 14:12

networkn:
jonathan18:
Zeon: The girl is stupid for going to the media with this. When her name comes out it will be forever found on search engines and that would be a person I wouldn't employ. If he continually did it after she said stop maybe but he stopped. I don't really think anything different of John Key. Note I didn't vote for him at the last election either...

Even your decision (deliberate or otherwise) to call her a 'girl' says something to me about your attitude (unless you do know that she was something like 16?). An example showing NZ really hasn't moved on that far from the "good ol' days" (when men could be men, and really it was all just a bit of playful fun) as I wish it had...

Oh boy. Really?

Damn straight, sunshine! Of course the choice of which words one uses in a given context reflects something wider regarding the user's upbringing, attitudes etc, as well as those of the wider society or particular groups in society.

I'm sure it's fairly well-accepted here by most that using the 'n' word is offensive, condascending and inappropriate; in its own way, the use of 'girl' is similarly loaded with cultural baggage and assumptions. I don't expect you to get this or agree with me in the slightest, as we are poles apart in our thinking, but sometimes a cigar is more than just a cigar*...

* And before anyone gets at me for that, it's a deliberate misquote.

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#1289357 22-Apr-2015 14:14

I find it hard to be terribly worked up over this.

It's a bit odd but that's about all the seriousness I can give it.

JimmyC

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#1289378 22-Apr-2015 14:31

Should have gone straight to the police. This idea of providing information 'anonymously' to 'blogs' these days is not the way to be taken seriously at all. How many reporters will be camped outside the cafe right now looking for wait staff with pony tails?! She probably has little idea what's about to happen, meanwhile it's great publicity for the blog and blogger. I'm sure that wasn't the intention at all.

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surfisup1000

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#1289383 22-Apr-2015 14:32

JWR:

Well perform this simple thought experiment...

What would happen to you if you repeatedly pulled a female police officer's ponytail?

That is not a thought experiment, it is a stupid analogy and a completely different situation but you know that I think.

surfisup1000

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#1289387 22-Apr-2015 14:37

KiwiNZ:
surfisup1000:
KiwiNZ:
surfisup1000: Jeez, what a bunch of hysteria.

Sure, it seems silly and a little inappropriate (the pm should know better) but it is hardly the crime of the century.

It is PC gone mad to equate this to an assault.

It is 'nanny state brigade' type thinking that want to treat any case of personal space invasion as a crime.

Its nothing to do with that silly Nanny state escapism rubbish. It is about inappropriate uninvited behaviour from a leader and role model. It is wrong and unacceptable.

Yes, and I said it was inappropriate but to call this an assault is the same thinking behind nanny-stateism.

Acquaint yourself with the definition of assault.... Assault consist of an act intended to cause an apprehension of harmful or offensive contact that causes apprehension of such contact in the victim.

Show some perspective, you are being a bit over the top.

You'd think he'd king hit the woman unconscious they way you describe it.

What do you want to happen, thrown JK in jail for 20 years? For goodness sake you people astound me sometimes.

Were you against the antismacking legislation? The one where Sue Bradford considered a light smack on the bottom to be equal to a brutal assault?

Just curious.

andrew027

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#1289388 22-Apr-2015 14:39

freitasm: So you folks saying his behaviour shows a hair fetish and he's acting in public on this to satisfy his own desires? And because it was all done without violence, it's ok then? Are you saying violence only exists when punchs are exchanged?

Or is this political too?

I am not saying it was OK - it was definately not OK. But as I said in an earlier post, there needs to be some intent before words like assault, bully, sociopath and violence start getting thrown around. Does anybody know what Key's intent was? There could be many reasons why he did this: Was he flirting with the waitress? Was it sexual harrasment? Was he abusing his high status position to belittle or intimidate a seemingly lowly service worker? Was he being a bully? Is he a sociopath? Does he have some fetish, or uncontrollable urge, relating to young women with ponytails? Was he bitten by a pony as a child? Who knows - any one, or a combination, could be correct. I just think it's wrong to label his behaviour without knowing the intent.

Personally, I think he thought he was being funny. Like when he tried planking. Or dancing Gangnam style. Or put on an effeminate walk when modelling the 2011 Rugby World Cup volunteers' uniform. Or said he "would have been dinner" if he was with Tuhoe. And sorry John, you're not funny. You're the embarrassing dad at the teen's birthday party.

surfisup1000

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#1289389 22-Apr-2015 14:41

andrew027:
I am not saying it was OK - it was definately not OK. But as I said in an earlier post, there needs to be some intent before words like assault, bully, sociopath and violence start getting thrown around.

Don't think we can win this one , people here are determined that this is some kind of brutal assault.

I give up.

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