Our new coalition government.

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#2177550 13-Feb-2019 11:56

Bluntj:

networkn:

Bluntj:

One item that stuck out was that Jones lolly scrambles to date have created 50 jobs in the regions at the cost of hundreds of millions and he has created over 100 civil servants in Wellington to administer the fund.

I wish I had written down my predictions at the start :)

I feel a bit under attack here just because I criticise the coalition for breaches of their policies. I see several people attacking your posts despite you offering facts and find this quite sickening.

If National WERE in Government and breaking election promises or totally blundering massive amounts of taxpayer funds on policies that are failures like Kiwibuild and Shane Jones lolly scramble, I would be criticising them as well.

Come on, sickening?????

That is utter BS

Here is the deal. If I defend the Coalitition, its invalid and an excuse. If you defend National there is a valid reason

If the JLR saga happened to Labour all hell would have broken loose here. It happened to National, none of us came out with knives, nor did we gloat that "hey its all gone quiet here" That is the difference

I defend anything Coalition has done that I feel is worth defending, and I try to explain why. I do not defend the Coalition for the sake of the Coaliltion, I am not married to them.

If you feel that criticising Labour is an issue, you are wrong, thats pretty darn obvious,. Look at the commentary some of you have. It gets a little childish and not infrequently. Maybe if you discussed with maturity, with your opinions, and why, we can discuss but few want that, as per my recent post. You mention lolly scramble, Ive mentioned that as well re tax cuts, oh that's a problem as you cannot criticise National or mention what they have NOT done in 9 years that has caused many issues mentioined here. But you cant say that its unfair.... Bury head in sand. If you feel that its not relevant then, hard to know what to say

1. Breaking election promises

List them all please

2. totally blundering massive amounts of taxpayer funds on policies that are failures like Kiwibuild

Explain Nationals policy on housing, what they would do to fix what they caused, or if they would just forget housing affordability, and explain the massive amounts of money that are gone with Kiwibuild. (BTW they are not being GIVEN away) And OBVIOUSLY Kiwibuild will be dumped of National wins? Tell me also why Kiwibuild is faulure

Look, apologies for talking down to you, but look in the mirror re attitude. Do we discuss important stuff here or whine that we lost the election?

tdgeek

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#2177566 13-Feb-2019 12:15

Actually, if National wins next time, based on arguments here, it would not be right, or relevant, or needed to mention the 3 year Coalition term? Given that any mention of National's past 9 years has been hammered here is mentioned. Thats probably a short story version of this thread, unbalanced (by some, not all)

gzt

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#2177575 13-Feb-2019 12:23

tdgeek: Much like this thread going quiet during the JLR saga.

There was actually a specific Jamie Lee Ross saga topic for that one. Made a nice change from this attention challenged kitchen sink topic.

Rikkitic

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#2177589 13-Feb-2019 12:44

I’m not a fan of Shane Jones and I’m not sure what he is up to. But I object to slanted comments that try to imply that the government is inept or dishonest without providing objective data to back that up. Commentary from clearly biased sources does not qualify.

Here is a Newshub article generally critical of Shane Jones. Two things in it caught my eye. First, it reports that Paul Goldsmith compared Jones to Pablo Escobar. Quote: “He wanders around the countryside like Pablo Escobar handing out cash wherever he goes.“ Is National's Economic Development spokesperson actually comparing a New Zealand government minister and Harkness Fellow to a despicable murdering drug lord? Gee, I thought only Labour politicians were prepared to stoop that low. Oh, wait…

The other thing in this article is Goldsmith’s admission that National, like Jones, also “ignored Treasury's advice” while in power. There goes another stick to beat Jones with.

My point, again, is that it is disingenuous and dishonest to selectively quote from biased sources in order to create a false impression that the current government is somehow morally degenerate and lacking in basic competency. This is close to fake news. The government has scored plenty of own goals. It has made mistakes and some hard to comprehend errors of judgement. It has shot itself in the foot more than once. It has, in fact, performed pretty much like every other government we have ever had. There is nothing singularly inept or corrupt about this one. It has also achieved some meaningful things in its first year and has hopefully set some major accomplishments up for the next one.

If you don’t like the government or its policies, stick to provable facts and stop with the character assassination. It adds nothing to the discussion.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2177594 13-Feb-2019 12:52

gzt:
tdgeek: Much like this thread going quiet during the JLR saga.

There was actually a specific Jamie Lee Ross saga topic for that one. Made a nice change from this attention challenged kitchen sink topic.

Yes there was, a small discussion, non emotive over the issue, the Labour people not bagging that I recall. ,I also recall no bagging of Labour, it was quiet for that period

wsnz

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#2177599 13-Feb-2019 12:56

Polytechnic mega-merger will take over apprentices and industry trainees

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12203337

A six week consultation period with implementation in 2020, for one of the largest shakeups of the tertiary education sector even undertaken? This is exceptionally rushed.

tdgeek

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#2177603 13-Feb-2019 12:59

Rikkitic:

I’m not a fan of Shane Jones and I’m not sure what he is up to. But I object to slanted comments that try to imply that the government is inept or dishonest without providing objective data to back that up. Commentary from clearly biased sources does not qualify.

Here is a Newshub article generally critical of Shane Jones. Two things in it caught my eye. First, it reports that Paul Goldsmith compared Jones to Pablo Escobar. Quote: “He wanders around the countryside like Pablo Escobar handing out cash wherever he goes.“ Is National's Economic Development spokesperson actually comparing a New Zealand government minister and Harkness Fellow to a despicable murdering drug lord? Gee, I thought only Labour politicians were prepared to stoop that low. Oh, wait…

The other thing in this article is Goldsmith’s admission that National, like Jones, also “ignored Treasury's advice” while in power. There goes another stick to beat Jones with.

My point, again, is that it is disingenuous and dishonest to selectively quote from biased sources in order to create a false impression that the current government is somehow morally degenerate and lacking in basic competency. This is close to fake news. The government has scored plenty of own goals. It has made mistakes and some hard to comprehend errors of judgement. It has shot itself in the foot more than once. It has, in fact, performed pretty much like every other government we have ever had. There is nothing singularly inept or corrupt about this one. It has also achieved some meaningful things in its first year and has hopefully set some major accomplishments up for the next one.

If you don’t like the government or its policies, stick to provable facts and stop with the character assassination. It adds nothing to the discussion.

What I said, but put into words better. Facts are boring, over emotive exaggeration is boring, but plenty to talk about. No one is here to convert anyone, or change anyone's mind, all opinions matter if they are based on facts and genuine concern "for the issue" . We already know and accept that some don't support one of said parties

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Send money globally for less with Wise - one free transfer up to NZ$900 (affiliate link).

tdgeek

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#2177605 13-Feb-2019 13:02

wsnz:

Polytechnic mega-merger will take over apprentices and industry trainees

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12203337

A six week consultation period with implementation in 2020, for one of the largest shakeups of the tertiary education sector even undertaken? This is exceptionally rushed.

Can you explain rushed? They thought of this last week? You do know these institutions are going broke, shutting down, while they also compete with one another? A single oversight makes a lot of sense. Education isn't working there

wsnz

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#2177651 13-Feb-2019 13:53

tdgeek:

wsnz:

Polytechnic mega-merger will take over apprentices and industry trainees

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12203337

A six week consultation period with implementation in 2020, for one of the largest shakeups of the tertiary education sector even undertaken? This is exceptionally rushed.

Can you explain rushed? They thought of this last week? You do know these institutions are going broke, shutting down, while they also compete with one another? A single oversight makes a lot of sense. Education isn't working there

The information provided to the sector late last year consisted of a proposal to consolidate back-office functions, and some tweaks to the tertiary funding model, along with increased emphasis on delivery of specific courses, aligned (mostly) with the Government's strategy. The present plan was not discussed, not even as a concept, hence a six week period for consultation is inappropriate. Perhaps it was simply a token gesture, but I don't know.

Competition between non-university tertiary institutions is already tightly controlled by the NZQA (though course approvals) and TEC (though funding approvals). Where course delivery overlaps occur, particularly on an intra-region basis where student populations are low, applications are already routinely declined. This could be tightened.

Oversight is already provided by the above organisations and the respective ministries.

A complete consolidation of the section to a national level, is inherently complex and costly. Some form of cross party support for such wide-ranging reforms will be absolutely necessary, as this will profoundly affect future governments, and tertiary institution’s customers, the students.

GV27

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#2177652 13-Feb-2019 13:54

If what I am reading is correct, all of National's questions on the first sitting day were about China. Nothing about Kiwibuild or the PGF or the stalling Light Rail proposals.

That's a pretty massive lack of awareness; they're perceived as being too pro-China and there are other slam dunks they could have talked about. Until they can figure this out, they pretty much deserve to be in opposition.

gzt

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#2177658 13-Feb-2019 14:02

wsnz:
Polytechnic mega-merger will take over apprentices and industry trainees

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12203337

A six week consultation period with implementation in 2020, for one of the largest shakeups of the tertiary education sector even undertaken? This is exceptionally rushed.

This does seem very short. On the other hand it looks like there is a broad consensus for it already. Something like a supercity proposal for the polytechnic sector.

tdgeek

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#2177662 13-Feb-2019 14:06

wsnz:

tdgeek:

wsnz:

Polytechnic mega-merger will take over apprentices and industry trainees

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12203337

A six week consultation period with implementation in 2020, for one of the largest shakeups of the tertiary education sector even undertaken? This is exceptionally rushed.

Can you explain rushed? They thought of this last week? You do know these institutions are going broke, shutting down, while they also compete with one another? A single oversight makes a lot of sense. Education isn't working there

The information provided to the sector late last year consisted of a proposal to consolidate back-office functions, and some tweaks to the tertiary funding model, along with increased emphasis on delivery of specific courses, aligned (mostly) with the Government's strategy. The present plan was not discussed, not even as a concept, hence a six week period for consultation is inappropriate. Perhaps it was simply a token gesture, but I don't know.

Competition between non-university tertiary institutions is already tightly controlled by the NZQA (though course approvals) and TEC (though funding approvals). Where course delivery overlaps occur, particularly on an intra-region basis where student populations are low, applications are already routinely declined. This could be tightened.

Oversight is already provided by the above organisations and the respective ministries.

A complete consolidation of the section to a national level, is inherently complex and costly. Some form of cross party support for such wide-ranging reforms will be absolutely necessary, as this will profoundly affect future governments, and tertiary institution’s customers, the students.

Ok, thanks for that good info, I'll look into it further. I know someone in the industry, maybe biased based upon her location. I doubt that centralisation of back office will help much, thats a saving, but there are millions going down the drain from what I gather

gzt

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#2177664 13-Feb-2019 14:08

GV27:
If what I am reading is correct, all of National's questions on the first sitting day were about China. Nothing about Kiwibuild or the PGF or the stalling Light Rail proposals.

and beyond that they're looking like an old FPP party battle the government all the way to the election type thing. Imo this is annoying the public expecting a better contribution under MMP conditions.

tdgeek

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#2177665 13-Feb-2019 14:09

gzt:
wsnz:

Polytechnic mega-merger will take over apprentices and industry trainees

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12203337

A six week consultation period with implementation in 2020, for one of the largest shakeups of the tertiary education sector even undertaken? This is exceptionally rushed.

This does seem very short. On the other hand it looks like there is a broad consensus for it already. Something like a supercity proposal for the polytechnic sector.

I'd assume they can see what has to be done and why, and done some groundwork on that. The consultation period isn't for working out what to do and how, its a feedback period, and if they are looking at 2020, well maybe that's fine. More to come in due course I would say

wsnz

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#2177666 13-Feb-2019 14:11

gzt:

This does seem very short. On the other hand it looks like there is a broad consensus for it already. Something like a supercity proposal for the polytechnic sector.

It's exceptionally short.

Integration issues with the "supercity" are still dragging on. IT integration and consolidation project schedules blew out significantly, costs rose significantly, and management could not access the data sets they required to manage the city. These are the tip of the proverbial iceberg when it comes to massive consolidation projects such as these.

But the fundamental question is, will consolidation of the Polytechnic sector in the fashion proposed, deliver the results that the government expect? That is, lower cost, better outcomes.

IMO it will take stakeholders more than six weeks to properly evaluate this and craft their response.

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