National's Budget leak documents 2019

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#2248197 30-May-2019 09:02

TD, is this what you're referring to?

Treasury has known since Tuesday - Secretary and Minister must resign, says Bridges

National leader Simon Bridges says Treasury has known exactly what happened since Tuesday but has "sat on a lie."

"They covered it up to hide their own incompetence," Bridges said.

He says he knows they knew what had happened because they fixed the issue with precision and that he has talked with sources within Treasury.

tdgeek

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#2248210 30-May-2019 09:08

GV27:

tdgeek:

So, now we know more, we can be happy that using unauthorised data is cool and a wonderful thi ng to do, trust and conventions are overrated it seems. Nice deflection Simon. Treasury appears now to be 100% wrong, but your behaviour doesn't change

Treasury isn't just wrong, it may have acted in a politicised way.

Like I've said, the Dirty Politics email saga set the bar low for this stuff, and the then opposition was happy to ride it for all it's worth. Suddenly holding Bridges to a higher standard than anyone else has previously been held to is pure partisanship.

I agree that it may well be that Treasury has acted in a politicised way. Does that excuse Simon for using that data? To dribble it out all day to maximise its effect? To use it to allow his weak discrimination report to be overruled by the story of the day, the leak? To call it a leak when its actually not leaked, it was found by his own people? That's also politicised. He could have exposed Treasury's weakness and scored one brownie point, but he managed it and drew it out. Not innocent by any stretch. From what I saw, Robertson etc were caught off guard so I assume they were not aware of what Treasury seemed to be aware of, which makes sense if Treasury was trying to hide its mistakes. What we need to know now, is if the Government were caught in the middle or knew more and earlier.

GV27

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#2248214 30-May-2019 09:11

So, if I understand correctly, you're upset that a politician acted in a political way? 😅

I think he fairly well exposed Treasury's weakness, given it's totally dominated the media cycle in Budget week and has put several ministers in uncomfortable positions.

For Simon Bridges, that's not a 'good' week, that's a bloody good week for any opposition leader. If you want to talk politics, then he's been hugely successful.

The difference is, he's a politician, not a civil servant. If the civil servants have been playing politics, that's probably where this discussion should be focused.

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#2248215 30-May-2019 09:13

GV27:

TD, is this what you're referring to?

Treasury has known since Tuesday - Secretary and Minister must resign, says Bridges

National leader Simon Bridges says Treasury has known exactly what happened since Tuesday but has "sat on a lie." "They covered it up to hide their own incompetence," Bridges said. He says he knows they knew what had happened because they fixed the issue with precision and that he has talked with sources within Treasury.

Yep. This says Roberston must resign, and also says he blames Robertson and assumes he was deeply involved. It doesnt say he was or he knows he was. Doesnt make much sense. Unless he tells us the Treasury sources, but that doesnt involve Robertson

He says the Treasury Secretary must resign, but also blames Finance Minister Grant Robertson.

"The secretary of the Treasury's position is clearly untenable," Bridges says.
He says Treasury have acted politically and it "beggars belief" that Robertson was not "donkey-deep" on the matter.

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#2248219 30-May-2019 09:21

GV27:

So, if I understand correctly, you're upset that a politician acted in a political way? 😅

I think he fairly well exposed Treasury's weakness, given it's totally dominated the media cycle in Budget week and has put several ministers in uncomfortable positions.

For Simon Bridges, that's not a 'good' week, that's a bloody good week for any opposition leader. If you want to talk politics, then he's been hugely successful.

The difference is, he's a politician, not a civil servant. If the civil servants have been playing politics, that's probably where this discussion should be focused.

LOl I'm not upset!

Treasury acted in a political way, to divert blame on them, thats VERY poor

Simon exposed the weakness after using it for political gain, thats also poor. Clearly trust and conventions dont matter but we already know that

Its a good week he has affected the Govt, His tactics are not good. he had every opportunity to expose Treasury, but he didnt, he bled his story out over the embargoed data, that is the difference. If ignoring trust and conventions is ok, then he did well. Once he got his mileage then he exposed the story. These so called conventions should be disbanded as its clear that they and trust dont matter, that is my issue.

GV27

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#2248220 30-May-2019 09:23

Yea I'm not sure he's going to get Robertson's scalp. The smoking gun will be if Robertson asked for advice on if the 'attack' was what is was initially presented as, but I'm not sure how Bridges can prove that other than a meeting in a diary whenever that gets released. Not sure how he's going to prove a grand conspiracy to silence the opposition, even if that is rapidly looking like a feasible reason for the complaint.

The fact the Head of Treasury hasn't resigned somewhat beggars belief at this point but he's doubling down, so might just be hoping to weather the storm until the Budget announcement is made and then fly under the radar until his tenure is up.

Winston cannot be killed by conventional weapons so he won't budge.

Gonna be an interesting debate this afternoon.

sir1963

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#2248221 30-May-2019 09:24

GV27:

sir1963:

Bridges knows the budget is meant to be embargoed

Bridges wasn't given embargoed budget data with an embargo. Yet he's meant to abide by a fictitious embargo on data that Treasury made publicly searchable?

And what of the actions of the Finance Minister, Winston, Treasury, etc?

Or is Bridges the only one who faces any sort of accountability because you don't like his colours?

There are well established protocols around budgets. He knows that.

He also knows that budgets contain information that can be exported in advance to make financial gain, this is called insider trading on the sharemarket and is illegal.

The fact that someone in Treasury screwed up right royally does NOT absolve Bridges for his behaviour. Think of this as being finding a house key hidden under a rock, that does NOT mean you are entitled to enter the house.

I don't care which party he belongs to, I have voted 4 different ways over the last 4 elections, I am not a National, not Labour, nor Green, nor NZ first, nor ACT supporter.

Simon Bridges got it wrong ethically and morally, he could have handled this differently , he could have acted ethically, honestly, with integrity and claimed he and national stood for strong moral values and scored just as much political milage and come out way way ahead, instead he chose the low road and came out looking like a dodgy used car salesman.

There are people in the world who will find a wallet on the street, take the money out saying "Finders keepers" , but when they loose a wallet "some Bast.. has stolen my money"

or if they are given the incorrect change in a shop its "Score" but complain about being ripped off if they are short changed.

Me, I hand the wallet into police and hand back the wrong change. The people I respect the most do the right thing even when its not in their best interest. Its having a consistent set of core values. I no longer know what, if any values Bridges has, he acquired something he knew he should not have and went "Score"...

I can and do regularly disagree with people I respect, I do disagree with policies from all political parties, but I can still respect them. Bridges has lost that respect, he showed his moral compass can swing wildly in the wind if he thinks he can "Score".

So, perhaps it not me who is making judgement based on colours, but yourself.

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tdgeek

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#2248226 30-May-2019 09:31

GV27:

Yea I'm not sure he's going to get Robertson's scalp. The smoking gun will be if Robertson asked for advice on if the 'attack' was what is was initially presented as, but I'm not sure how Bridges can prove that other than a meeting in a diary whenever that gets released. Not sure how he's going to prove a grand conspiracy to silence the opposition, even if that is rapidly looking like a feasible reason for the complaint.

The fact the Head of Treasury hasn't resigned somewhat beggars belief at this point but he's doubling down, so might just be hoping to weather the storm until the Budget announcement is made and then fly under the radar until his tenure is up.

Winston cannot be killed by conventional weapons so he won't budge.

Gonna be an interesting debate this afternoon.

From here, Simon will bleat on and on about this for the next few days, or more. Thats fine, its public now. He needs to do this to deflect his role, the role I see as acting underhand and dirty, keeping the actual issue underwraps while he used it, when the rest of us wer unaware. It will also dilute the budget, and cointinue to hide is female discrimination report that gas fallen well short , and is also secret

So, the budget and teachers wont get a fair hearing it seems.

When the National people searched for the 2018 budget, seems odd they used 2019/2020 to do that

Bluntj

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#2248227 30-May-2019 09:33

Simon Bridges did nothing wrong. He acquired facts and figures using a legitimate Government source that both the Government and Treasury knew about, yet decided to lie deeply to cover their own backsides for incompetence.

Why should Bridges as Leader of the Opposition divulge how he acquired the information, when the Government clearly knew all along? Bridges is not liar and stated clearly in public that the info was publicly available and nothing illegal had been done.

Bridges did his job very well for once. There has to be some resignations over this incompetent attempt to smear and cover up.

The information is irrelevant as it was only embargoed a few days before public release and the detail the opposition leaked was minor.

GV27

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#2248228 30-May-2019 09:33

tdgeek:

So, the budget and teachers wont get a fair hearing it seems.

When the National people searched for the 2018 budget, seems odd they used 2019/2020 to do that

I can attest to how this probably unfolded.

When this first broke, I went to the Treasury page and searched for the "Vote Conservation" paper that National first leaked. It gave all sorts of results from 2016 onwards*.

sir1963

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#2248234 30-May-2019 09:51

Bluntj:

Simon Bridges did nothing wrong. He acquired facts and figures using a legitimate Government source that both the Government and Treasury knew about, yet decided to lie deeply to cover their own backsides for incompetence.

Why should Bridges as Leader of the Opposition divulge how he acquired the information, when the Government clearly knew all along? Bridges is not liar and stated clearly in public that the info was publicly available and nothing illegal had been done.

Bridges did his job very well for once. There has to be some resignations over this incompetent attempt to smear and cover up.

The information is irrelevant as it was only embargoed a few days before public release and the detail the opposition leaked was minor.

Bridges KNOWS budgets are embargoed. The fact that someone screwed up does not change that fact.

Bridges did NOT do his job, his FIRST job is to act as a parliamentary representative for the benefit of NZ and its citizens. THAT combined with his knowledge that budgets are embargoed should have told him he should have warned Treasury about the issue.

He acted like a person who found a house key under a rock and then decided to make use of it.

The information is extremely relevant, who else was given a copy ?, Did anyone take financial advantage of that information ? Bridges word is not enough, he has proven he is willing to do the wrong this. Actions speak louder than words.

tdgeek

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#2248238 30-May-2019 09:58

sir1963:

Bluntj:

Simon Bridges did nothing wrong. He acquired facts and figures using a legitimate Government source that both the Government and Treasury knew about, yet decided to lie deeply to cover their own backsides for incompetence.

Why should Bridges as Leader of the Opposition divulge how he acquired the information, when the Government clearly knew all along? Bridges is not liar and stated clearly in public that the info was publicly available and nothing illegal had been done.

Bridges did his job very well for once. There has to be some resignations over this incompetent attempt to smear and cover up.

The information is irrelevant as it was only embargoed a few days before public release and the detail the opposition leaked was minor.

Bridges KNOWS budgets are embargoed. The fact that someone screwed up does not change that fact.

Bridges did NOT do his job, his FIRST job is to act as a parliamentary representative for the benefit of NZ and its citizens. THAT combined with his knowledge that budgets are embargoed should have told him he should have warned Treasury about the issue.

He acted like a person who found a house key under a rock and then decided to make use of it.

The information is extremely relevant, who else was given a copy ?, Did anyone take financial advantage of that information ? Bridges word is not enough, he has proven he is willing to do the wrong this. Actions speak louder than words.

Mr B has already stated that its shrewd and doing a good job. So trust and conventions dont matter

GV27

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#2248240 30-May-2019 10:02

sir1963:

Bridges KNOWS budgets are embargoed. The fact that someone screwed up does not change that fact.

Bridges did NOT do his job, his FIRST job is to act as a parliamentary representative for the benefit of NZ and its citizens. THAT combined with his knowledge that budgets are embargoed should have told him he should have warned Treasury about the issue.

He acted like a person who found a house key under a rock and then decided to make use of it.

The information is extremely relevant, who else was given a copy ?, Did anyone take financial advantage of that information ? Bridges word is not enough, he has proven he is willing to do the wrong this. Actions speak louder than words.

It. Wasn't. The. Budget. He wasn't given embargoed information with a clear embargo. Ask a PR person or journalist how embargoes work.

This isn't finding a key under a lock. This is leaving documents on a table in a public building that anyone can enter and then being upset that someone looked at them.

Then when you realise it was your fault you left them out, calling the police and saying you've been burgled to shut them up about what they found and deflect attention away from yourself.

Your total unwillingness to acknowledge anyone blame in this, yet load all this sky high expectations on Bridges is pathetic.

Treasury are the ones who made it publicly available, not Bridges.

sir1963

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#2248241 30-May-2019 10:02

tdgeek:

sir1963:

Bluntj:

Simon Bridges did nothing wrong. He acquired facts and figures using a legitimate Government source that both the Government and Treasury knew about, yet decided to lie deeply to cover their own backsides for incompetence.

Why should Bridges as Leader of the Opposition divulge how he acquired the information, when the Government clearly knew all along? Bridges is not liar and stated clearly in public that the info was publicly available and nothing illegal had been done.

Bridges did his job very well for once. There has to be some resignations over this incompetent attempt to smear and cover up.

The information is irrelevant as it was only embargoed a few days before public release and the detail the opposition leaked was minor.

Bridges KNOWS budgets are embargoed. The fact that someone screwed up does not change that fact.

Bridges did NOT do his job, his FIRST job is to act as a parliamentary representative for the benefit of NZ and its citizens. THAT combined with his knowledge that budgets are embargoed should have told him he should have warned Treasury about the issue.

He acted like a person who found a house key under a rock and then decided to make use of it.

The information is extremely relevant, who else was given a copy ?, Did anyone take financial advantage of that information ? Bridges word is not enough, he has proven he is willing to do the wrong this. Actions speak louder than words.

Mr B has already stated that its shrewd and doing a good job. So trust and conventions dont matter

No, all he has said is they don't matter to him. Some of us feel very very differently.

He has acted as a dodgy used car salesman, not as a respected statesman.

tdgeek

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#2248244 30-May-2019 10:08

I meant Bluntj not Simon B Bad choice on my part

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