Our new coalition government.

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#2178058 14-Feb-2019 08:27

GV27:

Fred99:

That's whataboutism - "Trump style"

The ad is deliberately offensive on multiple levels, that's also "Trump style".

Yawn. The outrage is the whataboutism here - "ignore the actual Kiwibuild issues, National thinks women are bad!" It used to be called a sleight-of-hand but now it has a fancy politics 2.0 name.

No it isn't. The outrage is warranted, the scrutiny deserved. Nobody (except apparently a stereotypical "dumb blonde" who needs some education and a witty slogan from an old scroat playing with meat) is unaware of issues with Kiwibuild.

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#2178060 14-Feb-2019 08:33

GV27:

Fred99:

That's whataboutism - "Trump style"

The ad is deliberately offensive on multiple levels, that's also "Trump style".

Yawn. The outrage is the whataboutism here - "ignore the actual Kiwibuild issues, National thinks women are bad!" It used to be called a sleight-of-hand but now it has a fancy politics 2.0 name.

Ok, lets deal with this. You say outrage, as ignore the actual Kiwibuild issues etc etc etc

No one here ignores Kiwibuild issues, we all know its failings, its flipped targets. It wont ever reach anywhere near its end target as I have stated. So how can that mean I/we ignore Kiwibuild failings? My "opinion" is that despite that it has value. One of your supporters once stated they should have set lowered targets and nailed it, he since changed his mind as usual. This is what I dont get , You guys hammer Coalition, thats fine. us guys might defend some of that, with reasons, not exaggerated rhetoric, and that's not fine. Conversely, National does something stupid, us guys criticise that then we are hammered as we are biased???

So, its ok to defend Nationals but not ok to defend Coailition? Its ok to bag KB, but not ok for me to also bag KB but say it has value? Thats my and your opinion, but my opinion is invalid and yours is?

THAT is the outrage, one rule for blue one for red

When there are disaggrements, which is expected, BLUE are far more aggressive, which one of you said the opposite, and oddly the super obssessed one intimated that he gives the Coalition a LOT of objectivity, or words to that effect, I nearly fell over when I read that

So why do Blue have a free rein and red do not? We all have opinions, and why do blue constantly offer false info, as I noted yesterday or the day before with someone. Its ok to ad rhetoric to gain effect and make stuff up? Come on

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#2178062 14-Feb-2019 08:34

As above. So true.

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#2178063 14-Feb-2019 08:38

Fred99:

No it isn't. The outrage is warranted, the scrutiny deserved. Nobody (except apparently a stereotypical "dumb blonde" who needs some education and a witty slogan from an old scroat playing with meat) is unaware of issues with Kiwibuild.

I think he means that some of us turn a blind eye to Kiwibuild. Which is ridiculous. Its below target, target has been flipped, they will only build 300 by July, and only 33 so far, we all know and admit that. GV says its a total failure. If it is scrapped it will be a total failure, otherwise its exaggerated rhetoric and not factual. If I complained about National, I'm biased, and so on

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#2178207 14-Feb-2019 11:35

Up to three quarters of what KiwiBuild adds to housing investment will be offset by lower investment by the private sector, the Reserve Bank warns.

On Thursday morning, Reserve Bank governor Adrian Orr told MPs that there was considerable pressure on the construction industry, which meant that where the government built houses, others which would have been built will be "crowded out" by a shortage of land or labour.

"If they were going to build 100 houses, that means that between 50 and 75 houses elsewhere aren't built," Orr told a select committee.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110583962/reserve-bank-warns-that-kiwibuild-will-mostly-cut-back-private-investment

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#2178208 14-Feb-2019 11:36

Super obsessed one? LOL.

So these personal insults will continue unabated and essentially sanctioned?

Blue is aggressive, sure ok....

freitasm

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#2178210 14-Feb-2019 11:39

networkn:

So these personal insults will continue unabated and essentially sanctioned?

Which personal insults - please be specific as to which user you refer. If you prefer please send me a PM.

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#2178211 14-Feb-2019 11:48

networkn:

Up to three quarters of what KiwiBuild adds to housing investment will be offset by lower investment by the private sector, the Reserve Bank warns.

On Thursday morning, Reserve Bank governor Adrian Orr told MPs that there was considerable pressure on the construction industry, which meant that where the government built houses, others which would have been built will be "crowded out" by a shortage of land or labour.

"If they were going to build 100 houses, that means that between 50 and 75 houses elsewhere aren't built," Orr told a select committee.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110583962/reserve-bank-warns-that-kiwibuild-will-mostly-cut-back-private-investment

Good points. Whats valid with that is that low end homes are a small part of the market, I forget whether it was as low as 5% or more than that

In any case, to avoid people building affordable home via Kiwibuild, we could cancel Kiwibuild so that people of more wealth can build theirs. And it seems 100 houses stops 50 and 75 being built elsewhere? To increase housing stock thats really saying retain Kiwibuild so we get more volume

Kiwibuild homes are private investment. They are built by the NZ building industry. Clearly Adrian Orr knows more than I do, but it sees to me that the policy should, be to cancel Kiwibuild and let the market work it out, which is slightly ironic

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#2178214 14-Feb-2019 11:55

freitasm:

networkn:

So these personal insults will continue unabated and essentially sanctioned?

Which personal insults - please be specific as to which user you refer. If you prefer please send me a PM.

They were reported previously, no action taken. To me they are obvious. It seems they are OK with you. Doesn't seem any point trying to discuss it.

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#2178216 14-Feb-2019 11:58

networkn:

Super obsessed one? LOL.

So these personal insults will continue unabated and essentially sanctioned?

Blue is aggressive, sure ok....

You are talking about personal insults??? /potkettle

Yes, IMHO Blue here is more aggressive than red, obviously that does not apply to all. If you can look from the middle of the fence that is quite clear IMO. There is a point where the line of being passionate is crossed. If that cannot be accepted I am wrong or you are wrong. I can think of many times when a discussion has one side been pseudo name calling and putdowns and some childish remarks from some, while the other is just trying to explain their point. The cause is that one side cannot manage their opinion being questioned. Along with that are many points raised being ignored, I see that a lot.

But this is all irrelevant as we all know. As I said lets try to keep to the facts, as some do, and be adult, also as some do

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#2178226 14-Feb-2019 12:22

networkn:

freitasm:

networkn:

So these personal insults will continue unabated and essentially sanctioned?

Which personal insults - please be specific as to which user you refer. If you prefer please send me a PM.

They were reported previously, no action taken. To me they are obvious. It seems they are OK with you. Doesn't seem any point trying to discuss it.

Difference of opinion is not personal insult. Where appropriate posts were edited and/or removed. People have been banned - outside spam most bans are in the Politics sub-forum.

Bluntj

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#2178240 14-Feb-2019 12:57

Seems to me that if someone criticises any of the Coalitions policies they are branded as a National pusher. For me I am going to have great difficulty choosing a party vote next election unless things change.

The things I am concerned about currently is the obscene amount of money going into Kiwibuild with strong doubts about it coming close to it meeting its social objectives. In addition to see Shane Jones $3B lolly scramble with few results. I also dont see poverty being addressed or the housing CRISIS even close to a policy to solve it. But we have banned plastic bags and smoking in cars and we have seen more industrial action affecting people and families than the last decade.

I know the Government has done a lot of good things, but most seemed to have been rushed through in the first few months. Did we really need too spend hundreds of millions on over 200 reviews or whatever they are called?

Its almost half way through the term, I am hoping they stop spending and talking and start doing some meaningful stuff.

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#2178252 14-Feb-2019 13:15

Bluntj:

Seems to me that if someone criticises any of the Coalitions policies they are branded as a National pusher. For me I am going to have great difficulty choosing a party vote next election unless things change.

The things I am concerned about currently is the obscene amount of money going into Kiwibuild with strong doubts about it coming close to it meeting its social objectives. In addition to see Shane Jones $3B lolly scramble with few results. I also dont see poverty being addressed or the housing CRISIS even close to a policy to solve it. But we have banned plastic bags and smoking in cars and we have seen more industrial action affecting people and families than the last decade.

I know the Government has done a lot of good things, but most seemed to have been rushed through in the first few months. Did we really need too spend hundreds of millions on over 200 reviews or whatever they are called?

Its almost half way through the term, I am hoping they stop spending and talking and start doing some meaningful stuff.

We all expect anyone who criticises the Coalition to be a National pusher. Off course they are. If anyone criticises National they are a Coalition pusher, off course they are, in my case, we are. The issue is that you guys think us guys are a problem and vice versa. Does it matter if we all have an inherent bias? No it doesnt

You have made some good points, some I agree with, some I don't, but I won't be wasting our time responding as my response will be seen as biased. Anyone who praises National or criticises the Coalition is not biased, you are all correct. Pity, as its never as easy or as simple as a one line sentence, and I personally find the dynamics of a country very interesting. But currently I dont support National so my opinion has no value here, and that's fine with me. So, continue away, you all agree with each other and that's all that matters. Whether you are right, wrong, or its somewhere in the middle, that just spoils a good story

Enjoy! :-)

Bluntj

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Ultimate Geek

#2178270 14-Feb-2019 14:18

Totally disagree with you as I do on so many of your multitude of posts. The whole objective of the Opposition (mainly National) is to oppose the Government with strong critique so as to hold them to account. I personally am offended that anyone else in NZ not in politics who criticises the Government is said to be a National supporter.

I know a lot of people who voted Labour last election that are strongly criticising the Government on two main counts...firstly they hate Winston and all he stands for (who knows what he stands for)and are so unhappy he seems to be running things and secondly a little of what I said...their policies and promises are not easing Social issues YET and that Jacinda talks a lot but little substance comes out.

I will let it rest now as I know you will not agree and will probably search the internet for links to say I am incorrect.

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#2178275 14-Feb-2019 14:30

Bluntj:

Totally disagree with you as I do on so many of your multitude of posts. The whole objective of the Opposition (mainly National) is to oppose the Government with strong critique so as to hold them to account. I personally am offended that anyone else in NZ not in politics who criticises the Government is said to be a National supporter.

I know a lot of people who voted Labour last election that are strongly criticising the Government on two main counts...firstly they hate Winston and all he stands for (who knows what he stands for)and are so unhappy he seems to be running things and secondly a little of what I said...their policies and promises are not easing Social issues YET and that Jacinda talks a lot but little substance comes out.

I will let it rest now as I know you will not agree and will probably search the internet for links to say I am incorrect.

Well said. Facts work better than emotive fluff but ok, bye

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