Our new coalition government.

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#2178287 14-Feb-2019 14:49

Just to clarify this Seems to me that if someone criticises any of the Coalitions policies they are branded as a National pusher.

For all the last couple of days almost all that has been discussed is that Coalition supporter in this thread are biased. My response of National pushers, your term, and Labour pushers is based on that. I thought that was quite obvious given the toing and froing here from both sides. That is the context. Given that you are well aware I have levelled criticism at this Government on many occasions should make it more obvious. And its also patently obvious that voters from all parties will not be 100% happy 100% of the time with each of the parties. Check any polls. Except here apparently. This thread is quite clear A vs B.

As you say, let it rest, post amongst yourselves

GV27

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#2178539 14-Feb-2019 20:44

tdgeek:

This is what I dont get , You guys hammer Coalition, thats fine. us guys might defend some of that, with reasons, not exaggerated rhetoric, and that's not fine. Conversely, National does something stupid, us guys criticise that then we are hammered as we are biased???

Because when it gets mentioned, people met with a barrage of "No, and here's a laundry list of things National didn't do from 2008 to 2017 so you don't really have a point".

I have a lot to get through throughout the day. I sometimes comment on topics that relate to my area of expertise. It frustrates me as someone who has spent a lot of time working and learning and accumulating technical knowledge to have valid points written off as mere tribalism. I can't really justify spending time checking the forums if there's a right opinion to have and anyone who doesn't have it is labelled as using "whataboutism" or some other tedious label that some posters spout when they appear from nowhere to police what is and what isn't acceptable in an argument.

It strikes me as being a lot like Twitter. There's a right opinion to have, and there's always an excuse for your side not delivering.

Anyway. As you all were.

gzt

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#2178542 14-Feb-2019 21:00

It's more a problem that this topic is a kitchen sink. Single issue topics tend to be more focused on an actual issue. I wish more people would start focused topics for issues like the polytechnic funding to get a sensible discussion with a begining and updates..

dejadeadnz

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#2178601 14-Feb-2019 22:55

networkn:

They were reported previously, no action taken. To me they are obvious. It seems they are OK with you. Doesn't seem any point trying to discuss it.

There's quite a big difference between some perceived right not to be offended as opposed to actual breaches of the FUG.

tdgeek

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#2178636 15-Feb-2019 07:26

GV27:

tdgeek:

This is what I dont get , You guys hammer Coalition, thats fine. us guys might defend some of that, with reasons, not exaggerated rhetoric, and that's not fine. Conversely, National does something stupid, us guys criticise that then we are hammered as we are biased???

Because when it gets mentioned, people met with a barrage of "No, and here's a laundry list of things National didn't do from 2008 to 2017 so you don't really have a point".

I have a lot to get through throughout the day. I sometimes comment on topics that relate to my area of expertise. It frustrates me as someone who has spent a lot of time working and learning and accumulating technical knowledge to have valid points written off as mere tribalism. I can't really justify spending time checking the forums if there's a right opinion to have and anyone who doesn't have it is labelled as using "whataboutism" or some other tedious label that some posters spout when they appear from nowhere to police what is and what isn't acceptable in an argument.

It strikes me as being a lot like Twitter. There's a right opinion to have, and there's always an excuse for your side not delivering.

Anyway. As you all were.

Ok, again it seems that Coalition supporters are unfair.

If someone point was labelled as whataboutism, maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong, so discuss it. Its when discussions revert to petty comments that they break down. Say you put forward a point and I said what about how that issue was handled in the last 9 years? Lets discuss it without toys being thrown out of the closet. My response may be 100% correct, it may be 100% incorrect, or in the middle, so lets discuss it without petty comments. If terms were alternating, the past Govt would be much less relevant. But 9 years is relevant. That doesnt mean my response is correct, so lets dicsuss it, again its when petty comments are thrown in, it breaks down, or responses are not discussed, instead someone gets mad and complains my response is an excuse, or mean, or unfair. It actually could mean that the poster cannot respond

Because anything some people say is always correct and what I say is always wrong, there isnt much point me having much involvement here, because some dont really want to discuss.

Ill finish off outlining how blunts post sums this all up

tdgeek

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#2178642 15-Feb-2019 07:54

Bluntj:

I will let it rest now as I know you will not agree and will probably search the internet for links to say I am incorrect.

Ok, so you are not happy that I wont agree. Thats very much the theme here, you guys want us guys to agree. If not, get unhappy and say you will let it rest now.

It seems bizarre that anyone would get unhappy if the other doesn't agree. This means you are always correct, if another doesn't agree you just won't talk anymore. That marries up with other comments than when we do not agree we are repeating stuff, talking about irrelevant stuff, and so on. the only conclusion is that you dont actually want to discuss you just want agreement, so its essentially a followers thread not a discussion thread. Thats actually fine as well, and those that are not the target audience should just leave

You also do not want anyone to research your post, so again, you dont want discussion you want agreement. And if say I did respond with a link, you will get unhappy and get emotive, or will choose to quietly ignore it, the latter I see a lot here

Thats pretty much all I have to say, I was going to just watch the thread and not get involved for what to me are plainly obvious reasons, but thats just a waste of time, despite some funny posts

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dwilson

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#2178647 15-Feb-2019 08:16

tdgeek:

Ok, again it seems that Coalition supporters are unfair.

...

I admire your determination.

To me, over years of observation, you present yourself as someone who is relatively close to neutral in the various political discussions, you appear to make informed decisions based. Albeit, you sometimes come across a tad on the emotional side 😜

The problem is, the people you're engaging with (on either the red or blue teams) cannot and will not change their minds. They are in the 25% of core party supporters.

The thing is though, they are completely irrelevant. The two main parties know they can rely on their votes no matter what so they simply ignore them and aim policy at capturing more votes from people like you. Swing voters. People that look critically at policy and vote accordingly. The people that matter. Sure the parties are all snakes about it, but they are targeting YOU, not their core supporters.

Your vote is more valuable than many of the people you engage with in this forum. And they are here to swing you over to their side. It's a leechorous arrangement. You're here to do good, to discuss and listen. They are here to get you wearing their teams sports scarf or hat.

In support of your argument though, as someone that visits this forum to hear opinions from people like you, the blue team supporters generally are way more aggressive from my observations. Thankfully, the repugnant ones were banned a few weeks back. You're left with the rest who are without the necessary evil and cleverness attributes to become truly malicious.

That all said, big thumbs up for effort.

networkn

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#2180879 15-Feb-2019 12:53

dejadeadnz:

networkn:

They were reported previously, no action taken. To me they are obvious. It seems they are OK with you. Doesn't seem any point trying to discuss it.

There's quite a big difference between some perceived right not to be offended as opposed to actual breaches of the FUG.

In my view, the fact someone can carefully dress an insult up as an opinion and this doesn't reach the threshold of a breach of FUG, doesn't make it any less insulting. Intent is important.

networkn

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#2180971 15-Feb-2019 14:50

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/jacinda-ardern-breaks-the-first-promise-she-made-as-labour-leader.html

How many promises broken makes for legitimate concern if those of us have been critising the coalition have been too harsh?

Rikkitic

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#2181093 15-Feb-2019 19:37

Not enough data for an informed opinion on this. Maybe they actually thought all these things (also the others) were achievable as promised. Maybe the promises were just aspirational. Maybe they were a cynical ploy to get elected. I don't know. What I like about it is that the promises were made at all, indicating that the things promised are seen as important and desirable and will probably be achieved one day in some fashion. To me that is better than nothing at all.

The tone of the article cited, as well as your own, is (yet again) one of looking for something to be outraged about. I have no issue with broken promises as long as there is an intention to fulfil them. I have never taken the promises of politicians seriously and I wish they would quit making them. In any case, I see nothing here to be outraged about. I think you are just looking for sticks to beat the government with. Let's see what things are like at election time.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

gzt

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#2181104 15-Feb-2019 20:39

networkn:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/02/jacinda-ardern-breaks-the-first-promise-she-made-as-labour-leader.html

How many promises broken makes for legitimate concern if those of us have been critising the coalition have been too harsh?

Jacinda Ardern breaks the first promise she made as Labour leader

The article is an opinion piece. The title initially led me to believe the promised project was cancelled. That is not the case. It's not a great look having a key Auckland policy start delayed - all the same I'm not sure most people will see the delay as a promise broken issue at this time.

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Rikkitic

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#2182157 18-Feb-2019 18:28

Another poll, Labour up, Jacinda up, National and Bridges, not doing so well. In spite of all the 'broken promises', the government is more popular than ever. It must be doing something right.

Or is the sizeable and growing majority of Labour supporters just a bunch of ill-informed and easily-led dummies entranced by a big smile? There are probably one or two knuckle-draggers here who still think so.

Looking forward to the next government unhindered by NZ First antics. Way to go, progressives!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

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#2182205 18-Feb-2019 19:11

dwilson:

You're left with the rest who are without the necessary evil and cleverness attributes to become truly malicious.

That all said, big thumbs up for effort.

Yes, under no circumstances could anyone have their own experience or knowledge that they've drawn on and come to a conclusion different to yours; they're all partisan hacks and the only valid opinions are the ones you hold.

The superiority complex at work here is mind-blowing.

GV27

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#2182210 18-Feb-2019 19:26

That's probably a bit inflammatory, but the reason I post about politics on Geekzone is that people are fairly well educated and prepared to discuss things if you are actually trying to put a thought or idea across. TD may be direct but he is never not responding to a point.

Likewise I also expect there are people here who have expertise in areas that I do not and conversely I will know things that others might not. It is a lot more respectful than so many other places that have these threads and it would be a real shame if any dissenting opinion was to be distilled down to "Me good, anyone else bad" by any poster here.

Dingbatt

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#2182216 18-Feb-2019 19:40

Rikkitic:
........
There are probably one or two knuckle-draggers here who still think so......

Unnecessary, offensive and most likely against the FUGs.

And the type of comment you have called others out on previously.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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