National's Budget leak documents 2019

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › National's Budget leak documents 2019

1 | ... | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2248364 30-May-2019 11:54

vexxxboy:

apparently, according to police , Treasury uploaded the leaked details to a clone website which could be accessed by anyone looking and up to 2000 hits occured of people looking at it . So there was no hack just stupidity by treasury staff and not knowing what they were doing.

Yep. There were 3 devices used, at least one was Parliamentary. National say it was them looking at 2018 budgets, so that's now out in the open. No hacking, plus incompetency in Treasury's IT practices

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2248390 30-May-2019 12:15

tdgeek:

I expect that ALL are involved in the enquiry, that includes the Givernment

It is apparently illegal and Simon was advised so

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/113111605/nationals-budget-leaks-go-against-security-agencys-advice-and-treasury-breach-was-unlawful-lawyers-say

A lot of these comments come from prior to Treasury revealing it was just the search vulnerability.

sir1963

3428 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3756

Subscriber

#2248404 30-May-2019 12:18

GV27:

tdgeek:

Ok, I take the 2019 Budget and anything that relates to that as embargoed. Thats data is secret until its release on Budget Day by the M of F If its got stolen, lost, found, no matter how, its still secret and if it has been exposed, thats illicit. Otherwise how could they go after Assange, if the data he leaked is now not classified or secret anymore? And how he got it, is not his fault its securities fault. Stretch it more, if I burgled your house, its not my fault as the house wasnt secure, its your fault.

Are you implying information available in a website search engine is somehow equivalent to something kept under lock and key?

Assange got classified information because someone inside gave it to him. He didn't hop on the CIA website and search for 'videos of extra-judicial killings'.

Are you implying that if you find a wallet on the street you are entitled to its contents ?

Are you implying that Simon Bridges is so stupid as to believe he was entitled to that information (which raises the issue of why make a fuss about it).

Bridges, by his own actions has shown he has low ethical standards , I simply can not trust him to do the right thing.

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2248405 30-May-2019 12:19

sir1963:

Are you implying that if you find a wallet on the street you are entitled to its contents ?

OR

Are you implying that Simon Bridges is so stupid as to believe he was entitled to that information (which raises the issue of why make a fuss about it).

Bridges, by his own actions has shown he has low ethical standards , I simply can not trust him to do the right thing.

Bridges is by far the least culpable actor in this saga and yet you keep focusing on what you personally think he should have done and ignoring what everyone else has done that has lead to this.

sir1963

3428 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3756

Subscriber

#2248407 30-May-2019 12:23

tdgeek:

vexxxboy:

apparently, according to police , Treasury uploaded the leaked details to a clone website which could be accessed by anyone looking and up to 2000 hits occured of people looking at it . So there was no hack just stupidity by treasury staff and not knowing what they were doing.

Yep. There were 3 devices used, at least one was Parliamentary. National say it was them looking at 2018 budgets, so that's now out in the open. No hacking, plus incompetency in Treasury's IT practices

I call BS on that. I wonder who in Treasury tipped them off.

Given the number of searches made, it was a hunt for the information, not a look at known information. Yes someone at Treasury (deliberately ?) bollocksed it up, but National is far from clean.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2248408 30-May-2019 12:24

GV27:

tdgeek:

I expect that ALL are involved in the enquiry, that includes the Givernment

It is apparently illegal and Simon was advised so

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/113111605/nationals-budget-leaks-go-against-security-agencys-advice-and-treasury-breach-was-unlawful-lawyers-say

A lot of these comments come from prior to Treasury revealing it was just the search vulnerability.

They cover that also

Geekzone

Want to support Geekzone and browse the site without the ads? Subscribe to Geekzone now (monthly, annual and lifetime options).

sir1963

3428 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3756

Subscriber

#2248409 30-May-2019 12:26

GV27:

sir1963:

Are you implying that if you find a wallet on the street you are entitled to its contents ?

OR

Are you implying that Simon Bridges is so stupid as to believe he was entitled to that information (which raises the issue of why make a fuss about it).

Bridges, by his own actions has shown he has low ethical standards , I simply can not trust him to do the right thing.

Bridges is by far the least culpable actor in this saga and yet you keep focusing on what you personally think he should have done and ignoring what everyone else has done that has lead to this.

No, I am judging him on what he actually did vs doing the "right" thing. Should I simply accept that his moral standards are so low he did not know what the right thing to do was ? It does not make him look any better.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2248411 30-May-2019 12:28

sir1963:

tdgeek:

vexxxboy:

apparently, according to police , Treasury uploaded the leaked details to a clone website which could be accessed by anyone looking and up to 2000 hits occured of people looking at it . So there was no hack just stupidity by treasury staff and not knowing what they were doing.

Yep. There were 3 devices used, at least one was Parliamentary. National say it was them looking at 2018 budgets, so that's now out in the open. No hacking, plus incompetency in Treasury's IT practices

I call BS on that. I wonder who in Treasury tipped them off.

Given the number of searches made, it was a hunt for the information, not a look at known information. Yes someone at Treasury (deliberately ?) bollocksed it up, but National is far from clean.

I think the Police stated that

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2248413 30-May-2019 12:31

sir1963:

No, I am judging him on what he actually did vs doing the "right" thing. Should I simply accept that his moral standards are so low he did not know what the right thing to do was ? It does not make him look any better.

You're also ignoring plenty of other people who didn't do "the right thing", let alone their jobs. If you just want to use this as a vehicle to attack Bridges, then we get it, you don't like Bridges.

Dingbatt

6804 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3694

Lifetime subscriber

#2248415 30-May-2019 12:36

Hmmm.
Just watched TVNZ’s coverage of this in the midday news.

“The National Party take full responsibility for this week’s budget leak.” But little to no mention of comments earlier calling it hacking and illegal. And the only clip of Simon Bridges they showed was of him saying they did it. TV3’s breakfast show had a more balanced commentary on it.
Pretty easy to see who pays the wages at the state broadcaster.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2248417 30-May-2019 12:41

Dingbatt: Hmmm.
Just watched TVNZ’s coverage of this in the midday news.

“The National Party take full responsibility for this week’s budget leak.” But little to no mention of comments earlier calling it hacking and illegal. And the only clip of Simon Bridges they showed was of him saying they did it. TV3’s breakfast show had a more balanced commentary on it.
Pretty easy to see who pays the wages at the state broadcaster.

That would be a change from last night then. Mutch-Mackay suggested even then that it was a simple search and more a case of a Treasury blunder than sophisticated hacking.

The comments made by Robertson are more newsworthy than Peters tbh, as is the question over Treasury potentially using a criminal complaint to silence the opposition.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2248427 30-May-2019 12:45

I note the Stuff headline that says National ignored advice doesn't actually state that National received advice that they should not release documents. It just says this:

"But National's release of sensitive information two days out from the budget being delivered, goes against official recommendations. It was also still illegal, lawyers say."

The headline strongly implies they received specific advise about this information. But the article just cites guidelines does not state that National received advice relating to these documents. That's a very different notion to what the headline is selling.

Again, there seems to be a forensic inspection of what National did and no accountability for the statements made by Government ministers.

sir1963

3428 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3756

Subscriber

#2248428 30-May-2019 12:51

GV27:

sir1963:

No, I am judging him on what he actually did vs doing the "right" thing. Should I simply accept that his moral standards are so low he did not know what the right thing to do was ? It does not make him look any better.

You're also ignoring plenty of other people who didn't do "the right thing", let alone their jobs. If you just want to use this as a vehicle to attack Bridges, then we get it, you don't like Bridges.

Nope, I have said plenty of times someone at Treasury screwed it up right royally. However what they did NOT do was go public with the information.

There is also a MASSIVE difference between making a mistake and knowingly taking advantage of it.

I get back to the dropped wallet, the guy who dropped it shouldn't have, but it's the guy to finds it and takes the contents who is the real culprit.

Do you get that I am attacking his actions , the choices he made ?, in Rugby terms I am playing the ball not the man. Equally I would be saying the same about ANY member of parliament irrespective of which party they represent, I hold no allegiance to any party and feel no need to defend any of them when they do the wrong thing. They are in an extremely privileged position , and we as voters should be demanding they behave in accordance with that privilege .

And I get it too, right and wrong is less important than party loyalty to many people.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2248431 30-May-2019 12:54

GV27:

I note the Stuff headline that says National ignored advice doesn't actually state that National received advice that they should not release documents. It just says this:

"But National's release of sensitive information two days out from the budget being delivered, goes against official recommendations. It was also still illegal, lawyers say."

The headline strongly implies they received specific advise about this information. But the article just cites guidelines does not state that National received advice relating to these documents. That's a very different notion to what the headline is selling.

Again, there seems to be a forensic inspection of what National did and no accountability for the statements made by Government ministers.

Well, the issue is Treasury, they are at fault. Incompetency and lies

National has a part here, what they did is illegal, Bridges is the leader, political science degree, and a lawyer. he knows what right and whats wrong

Labour, at best has no culpability if they are told lies by Treasury and lies by National (not illegal) At worst they knew, or knew later, we need to know that

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2248435 30-May-2019 12:57

sir1963:

Nope, I have said plenty of times someone at Treasury screwed it up right royally. However what they did NOT do was go public with the information.

There is also a MASSIVE difference between making a mistake and knowingly taking advantage of it.

I get back to the dropped wallet, the guy who dropped it shouldn't have, but it's the guy to finds it and takes the contents who is the real culprit.

Do you get that I am attacking his actions , the choices he made ?, in Rugby terms I am playing the ball not the man. Equally I would be saying the same about ANY member of parliament irrespective of which party they represent, I hold no allegiance to any party and feel no need to defend any of them when they do the wrong thing. They are in an extremely privileged position , and we as voters should be demanding they behave in accordance with that privilege .

And I get it too, right and wrong is less important than party loyalty to many people.

It's not a dropped wallet. It's leaving your wallet on a table with a sign that says 'free money' and being mad someone took your money.

Treasury did "go public" with the information. Otherwise National wouldn't have found it. Can't have this one both ways.

I find your professed neutrality a little unconvincing, given your supposed concern for ethical behaviour of our parliamentarians, given that you're only focusing on Bridges and not the ethics of the other members who have made themselves part of this.

1 | ... | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11