Issue with Paywave

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Forums › Finance and wealth management › Issue with Paywave

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#1408760 18-Oct-2015 19:05

raytaylor:
Journeyman: Locate the Paywave wire loop in the card, drill/punch hole through it.

Pretty sure if you still use the magnetic stripe it will just ask you to insert the card so you would have to be careful not to damage the chip.

I have also heard of a few retailers say they have turned down the sensitivity on their eftpos handsets to prevent this from happening.

I had a bad expierence at i think it was harvey norman - i couldnt get the card into the machine without the paywave being triggered and declining the transaction which was over the paywave limit.
Ended up going to the ATM and going back.

There is no such thing as a "sensitivity". Terminals will only read a card within range, which is typically 2-3cm and a maximum of around 5cm

If you buy something over the Paywave/Paypass limit you simply need to enter your PIN to process the transaction. This is the norm for me lots of places (Z being a classic example) where purchases are often over the limit.

A few people above seem to think the NFC functionality is in the chip. It's not. It's an antenna array built into the card. If you damage your chip your card isn't going to work.

sonyxperiageek

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#1408863 18-Oct-2015 21:14

Behodar: My brother asked for a card without Paywave and Westpac provided one. That was a while ago so I'm not sure whether it's still possible, but try asking your bank.

Alternatively, start shopping at Countdown (Paywave is enabled on the terminal but isn't accepted - possibly just with Westpac cards).

Countdown didn't use to accept Visa Debit payWave, but they recently starting accepting it as my ASB visa debit card's payWave started working!

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#1408867 18-Oct-2015 21:23

Interesting; my Westpac one still didn't work last time I tried it (a couple of weeks ago). Works at New World though, which is where I usually go.

Kyanar

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#1408884 18-Oct-2015 21:59

Oblivian:

If thats the case its a bit daft they give you the optional extra of adding accounts to the credit card then (they did on my anz plat) If you go to swipe to slelect savings its going to paywave it anyway. Unless part of that is disable paywave.

(session may not work for link) https://help.anz.co.nz/app/answers/detail/a_id/21/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ0NTE0MTcyNC9zaWQvLVo4VXRkem0%3D

Something I discovered really quickly using Onesmart cards, is to always swipe from the bottom upwards. But that won't work anyway because if it's a contactless card then you cannot swipe it anyway, you must insert it... into the bottom of the terminal (the NFC reader is at the top).

MaxLV:
With standard, Bank issued credit cards you simply ask your bank to load debit access on the card, and have your bank account the funds come from loaded as the 'Fast Balance' account. That way, when using an ATM or Eftpos the default account is the debit access one. To use your credit card, you have to push the credit (card) button on the Eftpos terminal to use your credit card account.

A credit card without debit access loaded will always use the credit card account for Paywave purchases. I dont know about 'scheme' cards...

You are incorrect. Contactless and credit will always process the transaction through the scheme network (Visa, MasterCard, American Express). You cannot have the contactless functionality ever use the EFTPOS application on the chip - that is provided by the scheme application (PayWave or PayPass).

There's no such thing as a "default" account - contactless always uses the credit card account on credit cards (or linked transaction account on debit cards), and insert or swipe will always prompt for an account.

MaxLV:

Paywave transaction have to be initiated by the retailer when they're punching their numbers in to the Eftpos terminal. It's not the default payment option.

Not correct, unless the merchant has credit acceptance loaded under a different merchant number.

andrew027

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#1408970 19-Oct-2015 08:38

Oblivian:
Kyanar:
Oblivian: Same bank? Get eftpos loaded onto the card also and default as chip use if you don't ever want to use the CC via paywave.

Impossible. A requirement of the schemes is that if you have a scheme branded card, the default application on the chip must be the scheme application (Visa PayWave or MasterCard PayPass. Amex ExpressPay doesn't co-exist with EFTPOS apps anyway so that's irrelevant). Even then, as PayWave and PayPass are scheme applications, they are incapable of performing an EFTPOS transaction only a scheme debit/credit transaction.

If thats the case its a bit daft they give you the optional extra of adding accounts to the credit card then (they did on my anz plat) If you go to swipe to slelect savings its going to paywave it anyway. Unless part of that is disable paywave.

(session may not work for link) https://help.anz.co.nz/app/answers/detail/a_id/21/session/L3RpbWUvMTQ0NTE0MTcyNC9zaWQvLVo4VXRkem0%3D

I have a BNZ Platinum Visa with two other accounts linked to it. When I use the card for PayWave it deducts from my "cheque" account. I have to use Semble on my mobile if I want to make a PayWave payment with my Visa.

Journeyman

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#1409260 19-Oct-2015 14:44

sbiddle:
raytaylor:
Journeyman: Locate the Paywave wire loop in the card, drill/punch hole through it.

Pretty sure if you still use the magnetic stripe it will just ask you to insert the card so you would have to be careful not to damage the chip.

I have also heard of a few retailers say they have turned down the sensitivity on their eftpos handsets to prevent this from happening.

I had a bad expierence at i think it was harvey norman - i couldnt get the card into the machine without the paywave being triggered and declining the transaction which was over the paywave limit.
Ended up going to the ATM and going back.

There is no such thing as a "sensitivity". Terminals will only read a card within range, which is typically 2-3cm and a maximum of around 5cm

If you buy something over the Paywave/Paypass limit you simply need to enter your PIN to process the transaction. This is the norm for me lots of places (Z being a classic example) where purchases are often over the limit.

A few people above seem to think the NFC functionality is in the chip. It's not. It's an antenna array built into the card. If you damage your chip your card isn't going to work.

Additional reading:

PayWave & PayPass deletion via RFID antenna kill

Disabling contactless payment cards, or preventing “card clash” with Oyster

You just punch a hole through the antenna, not the chip.

wasabi2k

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#1409284 19-Oct-2015 15:02

kingjj:
Brumfondl: Guess I am the only grumpy old man thinking 'Just be more careful'...

Make that two grumpy old buggers.

+1. Mangling your bank card is a really dumb solution to what isn't really a difficult issue.

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khull

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#1409902 20-Oct-2015 16:09

Here we go again.

If you pulled both cards out or accidentally have one in close proximity then it is an operator error not a process / technology issue. I can imagine London underground staff going mad having to refund commuters who do this

Also the very fact of "double payment" being in this discussion (it is NOT possible in the same transaction) means there is more interest on trolling on the subject over any meaningful discussion.

dwl

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#1417632 31-Oct-2015 11:52

Found this thread after a new Mastercard arrived this morning for my wife with PayPass included. Phone calls to Westpac clarified that there is no option through them for a credit card without this function enabled and the card has been destroyed. They have previously also offered Visa but now that is legacy.

While many readers of this forum will be comfortable with the technology there is a significant number of the older population who aren't and don't want pinless use of the card (either accidental or if lost). I know banks protect you but that isn't enough for some.

I asked Westpac if there was anything they could do and one operator said they understood that now no bank will offer credit cards without some type of Paywave enabled. This thread mentioned ASB and their website is saying their Visa can have Paywave disabled so that is currently our preferred option changing banks. I then asked Westpac to not make claims about what else was available in the market and I was also told that there had been quite a lot of negative feedback about this.

Is ASB Visa the only option for no Paywave (staying with Mastercard or Visa) apart from mangling the card? Many thanks for this thread - it has pointed to an option.

Linuxluver

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#1417749 31-Oct-2015 16:43

Technofreak: Twice recently I've had a situation where my credit card has come close to the EFTPOS terminal while making a payment with my EFTPOS card. Both times much to my annoyance the paywave function on the EFTPOS terminal has taken the money from my credit card.

The first time I had inadvertently pulled both my EFTPOS and credit cards out of my wallet together and when I swiped the EFTPOS card the terminal took the payment from my credit card.

The second time I had my EFTPOS card in my right hand ready to swipe it while holding my wallet in my left hand. To use the terminal I had to pick it up with my left hand which I was able to do while still holding my wallet and you guessed it the terminal took the payment from my credit card which was still in my wallet.

There's a couple of things that bug me.

I never wanted the paywave function on the credit card, you don't get a choice.
Once the transaction has been completed the retailer will not reverse the transaction.

Does anyone know of a way to to stop paywave? Can you scratch off the chip and still use the magnetic swipe?

This happened to me once at Mobile. I had my wallet in my right hand and put the terminal in my right hand on top of the wallet....so I could swipte my EPT-POS card with my left hand.

Too late. It took the money from my credit card. But not just any credit credit card. It was my (Canadian) Royal Bank VISA card. That meant I'd also be up for fees and exchange charges. No thanks. I asked them to reverse it and they did. I then paid by EFT-POS.

FUN FACT: The exchange rate for the purchase was different to the exchange rate for the refund....so I ended up $2.57 ahead on my $33.50 petrol purchase.

SOLUTION:

1. Take out your wallet.
2. Remove EFT-POS card from your wallet.
3. Put your wallet BACK in a pocket.
4. Pick up terminal and pay with EFT-POS card.

Works EVERY time. ;-)

Aside: I will never use PayWave. as I understand it, it's handled by the bank as a credit card transaction and the related charges are to the merchant (and possibly the user) are different. They often cost more than EFT-POS. Why do it at all?

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freitasm

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#1417768 31-Oct-2015 17:38

Paywave charges for merchants are the same as credit card.

raytaylor

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#1417862 31-Oct-2015 20:05

freitasm: Paywave charges for merchants are the same as credit card.

Sidenote - The woman at countdown napier said last night they now have paywave.

Now this is something I have wondered... How much of a loss to our GDP is a result of paywave fees. I wasnt using it at first because I heard a rumor that paywave fees are charged as a "Card not present" transaction where the merchant pays more for transactions where the card number is supplied over the telephone etc.
I always assumed this is why Countdown was not allowing it - because I am sure they did, then took it away, and now its apparantly back.

So I wasnt using it, but started because its just too convenient.

My question to those in the know is How much of those merchant fees stay within New Zealand, and How much go overseas to Visa or Mastercard?

It would make sense to me to just insert the card and pay by chip instead because at least the merchant gets to keep a few extra cents which over time adds to our economy. Am I correct in my assumption?

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richms

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#1417875 31-Oct-2015 20:24

raytaylor:

My question to those in the know is How much of those merchant fees stay within New Zealand, and How much go overseas to Visa or Mastercard?

It would make sense to me to just insert the card and pay by chip instead because at least the merchant gets to keep a few extra cents which over time adds to our economy. Am I correct in my assumption?

Varies greatly between merchants. They will reduce it for low risk industries.

Fees are the same as with chip and pin credit cards - How much of those fees end up back at the card user as rewards points/etc will also vary. Then there is the additional money that people have because of the 25+ days interest free use of the banks money for their purchases - again, that would be a benifit to the economy as less interest paid by the users (or more interest earned) - means more to spend.

Richard rich.ms

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#1417925 31-Oct-2015 22:58

Sidenote - The woman at countdown napier said last night they now have paywave.

Now this is something I have wondered... How much of a loss to our GDP is a result of paywave fees. I wasnt using it at first because I heard a rumor that paywave fees are charged as a "Card not present" transaction where the merchant pays more for transactions where the card number is supplied over the telephone etc.
I always assumed this is why Countdown was not allowing it - because I am sure they did, then took it away, and now its apparantly back.

On the assumption that Countdown have a national policy on this, my understanding is that they have always allowed Paywave on Credit Cards, but have only just started accepting Paywave via Debit Cards.

Kyanar

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#1417930 31-Oct-2015 23:48

freitasm: Paywave charges for merchants are the same as credit card.

This is not actually true. The Mastercard Interchange Fees show a different rate for contactless (treating it the same as a Strategic Merchant). Visa appear to vary per issuer.

If you're signed up to Interchange Plus, then you will see that reflected as lower merchant fees. However if you're signed up as Blended, every transaction is the same.

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