Interesting banking industry practice uncovered.

Please note this sub-forum does not provide professional finance advice. You should seek advice from a licensed financial advisor.

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification.

If investing please consider our affiliate link for new accounts: Sharesies.

Forums › Finance and wealth management › Interesting banking industry practice uncovered.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 409

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3438454 29-Nov-2025 12:59

freitasm:

Imagine the inconvenience of changing a card number because of fraud (usually one off, unauthorised transactions) and having the legwork to change the card number everywhere - ISP, electricity, water, streaming services, insurance, etc.

I don't see anything wrong here.

That is precisely what I do whenever my card is replaced. I subscribe to very few merchants and go through all of them if I get a new card. If I miss on a particular merchant I am happy to let the subscription fail and renew it if I wish to.

--

OldGeek.

Quic referal code: https://account.quic.nz/refer/581402 and use this code for free setup: R581402E48MJA

mudguard

2327 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1250

#3438459 29-Nov-2025 13:37

OldGeek:

freitasm:

Imagine the inconvenience of changing a card number because of fraud (usually one off, unauthorised transactions) and having the legwork to change the card number everywhere - ISP, electricity, water, streaming services, insurance, etc.

I don't see anything wrong here.

That is precisely what I do whenever my card is replaced. I subscribe to very few merchants and go through all of them if I get a new card. If I miss on a particular merchant I am happy to let the subscription fail and renew it if I wish to.

This is a little like trying to cancel a service by closing an account associated by direct debit isn't it? If you authorise a direct debit then they will try and pull it regardless of what you do to the account. It's been awhile since I've worked in the bank so who knows now.

I'm on the other side, I want payments to continue when my card expires and it's replaced. I'm not sure why you don't cancel the service directly? Surely if you can sign up to it, you can cancel it too?

OldGeek

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 409

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3438460 29-Nov-2025 13:51

mudguard:

I'm on the other side, I want payments to continue when my card expires and it's replaced. I'm not sure why you don't cancel the service directly? Surely if you can sign up to it, you can cancel it too?

I am a long time user of Fing on the free plan, probably upgraded to a paid plan on a black Friday 2024 deal. No such deal this year. I simply forgot I was on a paid plan.

The issue though is not the subscription, but the fact that they used a cancelled card and it was honoured.

--

OldGeek.

Quic referal code: https://account.quic.nz/refer/581402 and use this code for free setup: R581402E48MJA

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
80654 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 41050

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3438463 29-Nov-2025 13:54

They didn't use the card. They used an authorisation. The authorisation doesn't expire or end with the card, allowing service continuity.

It's back to subscription management.

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

OldGeek

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 409

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3438516 29-Nov-2025 14:10

freitasm:

They didn't use the card. They used an authorisation. The authorisation doesn't expire or end with the card, allowing service continuity.

It's back to subscription management.

They used a cancelled credit card number registered with them for the payment of a year ago. The renewal receipt showed that cancelled card number but the transaction appeared on my account charged to my current credit card number. So your statement that 'they did not use the card' is not supported by the evidence I see.

--

OldGeek.

Quic referal code: https://account.quic.nz/refer/581402 and use this code for free setup: R581402E48MJA

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
80654 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 41050

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3438535 29-Nov-2025 15:49

The card is expired. They could not use it. The token is valid still. The token, created with that card, is used against a credit account.

The credit card issuer knows the card number associated with the token. That's why the ending appears in the statement.

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

Lenovo

Shop now for Lenovo laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
80654 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 41050

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#3438537 29-Nov-2025 15:51

I know it looks like they used the card, but behind the scenes is a lot different than the line on the paper.

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

k1w1k1d

1713 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1313

#3438547 29-Nov-2025 16:19

I assume that Mastercard is the same?

geek3001

220 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 331

ID Verified

Subscriber

#3438606 29-Nov-2025 17:44

freitasm:

They didn't use the card. They used an authorisation. The authorisation doesn't expire or end with the card, allowing service continuity.

freitasm:

The card is expired. They could not use it. The token is valid still. The token, created with that card, is uaed against a credit account.

The credit card issuer knows the card number associated with the token. That's why the ending appears in the statement.

I'm a little confused / surprised.

The authorisation or token issued to the merchant must surely only be valid for the merchant to which it is issued (to prevent fraudulent use by someone else should they somehow gain access to the token), and importantly only for the specific card / PAN it was issued for.

Said token remains valid where the card is routinely reissued and the PAN remains the same but updated expiry date and CVC, as this assists with maintaining automatic payment continuity.

However, when a new card with a new PAN is issued, the token the merchant has on file must surely be rendered invalid?

If not, where is the security in the whole system?

As a cardholder with a replacement card with a new PAN I would expect to have to advise affected creditors with auto payments of that new card number, even though it's a pain in the butt to do. I have had to do this within the last two years following card fraud.

zespri

424 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 94

Lifetime subscriber

#3438607 29-Nov-2025 17:50

michaelmurfy:

But, you can indeed cancel them. This often has to be done via the call centre.

What do you tell them? "Make sure that Fing can now longer charge me?" it does not sound like something a support person can action... To be clear: I'm not making fun of what you said, I'm after information what is practically possible in this situation.

michaelmurfy

meow
13580 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10912

Moderator

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3438608 29-Nov-2025 17:58

OldGeek: So your statement that 'they did not use the card' is not supported by the evidence I see.

As @freitasm said above this works different than you think.

Per the spec - when you authorize the card this creates a token and from then on that token is what is used with billing. It doesn't matter if you change your card / card number etc as that token will never change as it is linked to your card account number with the bank.

Your card account number has never changed when you changed your physical card nor is it supposed to change. The authorizations created via VAU always stay linked.

If you close your credit card those authorizations go with it. They can't magically bill you via a closed account. If you just simply replace your card your card account number remains and so do your tokens.

In layman's terms - it's like if you set up a direct debit on a bank account. Most banks don't actually allow you to cancel those yourself either. If you replace your EFTPOS / Visa Debit card then those direct debits still stay. If you close the associated bank account number those direct debits vanish.

With many trusted merchants, like Fing, setting up billing is essentially authorizing a direct debit just using your card as a simple method to make it happen then after that it doesn't have to use your card.

Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
Referral Links: Quic Broadband (use R122101E7CV7Q for free setup)

Are you happy with what you get from Geekzone? Please consider supporting us by subscribing.
Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

michaelmurfy

meow
13580 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10912

Moderator

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3438609 29-Nov-2025 18:00

zespri: What do you tell them? "Make sure that Fing can now longer charge me?" it does not sound like something a support person can action... To be clear: I'm not making fun of what you said, I'm after information what is practically possible in this situation.

Exactly that. Most support people do know about it and there are procedures to cancel these.

OldGeek

989 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 409

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#3438645 30-Nov-2025 08:27

Well this thread has certainly been illuminating. Thanks to all who have responded. I will continue with the Banking Ombudsman case I have raised, and update this thread with any developments.

--

OldGeek.

Quic referal code: https://account.quic.nz/refer/581402 and use this code for free setup: R581402E48MJA

mudguard

2327 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1250

#3438650 30-Nov-2025 09:34

Reminds me a little of the cooling off period with finance contracts. IE hire purchaser agreements generally have a period of five days to cancel the finance agreement but requires purchasing the goods in another manner. Doesn't get you out of the purchase altogether.

ANglEAUT

altered-ego
2436 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 842

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3438652 30-Nov-2025 09:50

mudguard: ... Surely if you can sign up to it, you can cancel it too?

Very often, that is not the case.

When Websites Make It Hard to Cancel... - StaySafeOnline.org
‘Too hard to cancel’ – global spotlight on subscriptions and use of online choice architecture - WynnWilliams.co.nz

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6