Force 60hz when Win7 really wants 59hz through VGA

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Kezzainc

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#39352 12-Aug-2009 18:23

Hello all, I have a Samsung LA40M81BX that takes 1920x1080 @ 60HZ and it looks really really good vs HDMI. I know how weird this is but I've tryed 5x diff gfx cards / motherboards and vga wins hands down. From words to colours.

Ive just upgraded my GFX card to a ATI 4890. Cool card but the drivers always reverts back to 59hz. It makes me think it switching to 60hz but by my big black screen and refreshing the window, its back to 59hz.

I hear this is common for Win7 but surely they cant let this happen?? Im on build 7100 and have the rtm ready. Will this fix it?

To me its ATI that has the problem or drivers that dont fix Win7s problem. What can I do as im just not happy with the HDMI picture.

ZollyMonsta

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#245742 12-Aug-2009 18:32

I've found its a balance.. you either want clear video (Freeview on it, Blu ray and DVD) @ 50hz... else you want clear type and PC graphics @ 60hz.. you can't have both at the same time. I also have a Samsung, a Series 7. Got an ATI Radeon HD4670/4650 here and haven't had any problems with switching between 50hz and 60hz. I haven't looked to see what the TV thinks it's displaying though. I'm on Windows XP.. So maybe the problem you're having problems with it due to Win 7 (Grapghics Drivers maybe?)

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rhysb

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#245771 12-Aug-2009 19:24

The actual refresh rate is 59.94Hz, the display of 59Hz is just cosmetic.

RustyGonad

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#245774 12-Aug-2009 19:26

I think you need to do some more work with the HDMI side of things.

Check the drivers are doing 1:1 mapping and not scaling the desktop when using HDMI. I can't say for sure with the latest Catalyst drivers (haven't used them for ages) but they used to take alot of tweaking to get to an acceptable picture via HDMI (usually due to desktop scaling). Nvidia sets 1:1 mapping out of the box.

I use a Samsung LA46F81BX, there is absolutely no comparison between HDMI and VGA at 1080p resolutions. HDMI eats it for breakfast, both in sharpness and colour definition.

As an aside if your using it to watch TV you should be 1920x1080 50Hz to match the NZ broadcasts, all of which are 50Hz. You wont get 50Hz through VGA to the best of my knowledge. 60Hz judders in comparison... If you can't see what I'm talking about just forget I ever told you this...

The RTM won't help you either - the drivers are ATI's issue.

Kezzainc

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#248661 19-Aug-2009 15:30

.....After some good playing around with many things the fix was an easy one in my eyes. Get another nvidia card. I could get it to switch into VGA 60hz but it was always happy to switch back when entering games, OS installs etc. I couldn't take that as I needed to plug another LCD in to get it back again. My testbench was quite large on this one too. All Asus motherboards running different chipsets with Q9400 Intel, AM3+ 940, AMD Quad 9550 then, XFX 9800GT 512, 9800GT 1gig, XFX GTX260 Extreme, ATI 4890 1000mhz and also the Nvidia GTX 295. Onboard chipset showed the same output problems.

And I know some again wont like hearing this but VGA looks better on my Samsung LA40M81BX than HDMI no questions about it. I tweaked HDMI a lot because that should have been the fix here but I never felt like I could get it 1:1 pixel with ATI or nVidia drivers. This is HDMI to HDMI and DVI to HDMI. How crazy this is I believe a lot more people out there should go give VGA another go on their Samsung Full HD TVs. HDMI is only here because of HDCP anyway isn't it...?

So what I have learnt here is very clear, HTPC builders get on your back foot about going the ATI GFX card way. You can get it working but it not like nvidia's plug and go system. But if you have a 'normal' monitor, myself I saw no reason to be worried about this topic.

Please Samsung guys let us know what you guys see switching back to VGA at 1920x1080. RustyGonad, the F should be the same as my M through VGA as not 100HZ..... ?

sbiddle

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#248670 19-Aug-2009 16:09

RustyGonad: I think you need to do some more work with the HDMI side of things.

Check the drivers are doing 1:1 mapping and not scaling the desktop when using HDMI. I can't say for sure with the latest Catalyst drivers (haven't used them for ages) but they used to take alot of tweaking to get to an acceptable picture via HDMI (usually due to desktop scaling). Nvidia sets 1:1 mapping out of the box.

I use a Samsung LA46F81BX, there is absolutely no comparison between HDMI and VGA at 1080p resolutions. HDMI eats it for breakfast, both in sharpness and colour definition.

As an aside if your using it to watch TV you should be 1920x1080 50Hz to match the NZ broadcasts, all of which are 50Hz. You wont get 50Hz through VGA to the best of my knowledge. 60Hz judders in comparison... If you can't see what I'm talking about just forget I ever told you this...

The RTM won't help you either - the drivers are ATI's issue.

Does your Samsung do 1:1 pixel mapping at 1920x1080 50Hz over HDMI? It seems that some of their models will do it at 60Hz but not 50Hz.

I've got to agree that HDMI beats VGA hands down on the Samsung TV's I've played with. Even on my Pioneer Plasma HDMI delivers significantly better colour than VGA but unfortunately being an older TV won't do 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI so I'm forced to use VGA.

RustyGonad

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#248696 19-Aug-2009 17:50

sbiddle - Yea - does 1:1 at 50 Hz. I've played with a couple of other Samsungs, which don't do true 1:1, so I know where your coming from.

Kezzainc - HDMI/DVI is digital. Your panel is digital. VGA converts a digital signal in the PC into analog. Once it gets to the TV, it gets converted from Analog back to digital again. All things being equal (can't comment what the M81's do in regard to resolution/refresh rates), the digital signal will always win.

The other thing to check is to make sure all the contrast/brightness/colour/enhancements/etc/etc settings are the same between VGA and HDMI. ie if one is on Dynamic and the other on Standard for example, you will get a huge difference in picture quality. Your will also get a difference depending on how your NVidia drivers are setup (RGB vs Ycbcr for example, the default RGB looks washed out).

If you still think VGA looks better, so be it. No issue with that as long as your happy.

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Kezzainc

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#248779 19-Aug-2009 20:30

What tweaking if any, are you doing with HDMI guys?