new av receiver

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MCONZ

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#189695 15-Jan-2009 09:10

If only the so called pro's explained it as clearly as you did Jaxson haha

When I get it all sussed and up and running within the next month or so hopefully then I will be happy. The getting there part is fun though, I have always been one for doing extensive research and questioning before I commit to make a large purchase which hasn't done me wrong so far. I currently have my old Pioneer VSX-811S which I have had now for 5 years and since i recently upgraded my tv and got Blu-ray, I thought I'd better concentrate on getting a new receiver soon too. But i will keep posting on here with progress.

Dingbatt

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#189743 15-Jan-2009 11:29

Jaxson: ....
So in short/general: a cheap bluray player will not internally decode and you'll need a flash receiver.
A fancy bluray player/PS3 will internally decode to LPCM so you don't need such a fancy receiver.
The Onkyo 575 works fine if you pass it LPCM, so is a great match for a PS3/expensive Bluray Player.

Plan b:
Sony and Panasonic have two models of bluray player, a base one that can't decode internally, and a top of the range that does and often has analogue outputs as well. the samsung 1400 did this. Some older amps with no hdmi eg Pioneer 816 etc have 5.1 analogue inputs that can be connected to a bluray player that decodes internally and outputs as 5.1 or 7.1 analogue audio. In this case though it's straight pass through and none of the receivers settings apply, like microphone set equalisers, distance to speakers, speaker size etc, so not really ideal.

Sorry, huge post but hope that kind of helps?
Cheers, Jackson.

The huge post helps more than you imagine.

I know it is slightly off topic but it may help others with the old-new match-up.

Highlighted above you mentioned the samsung bd-p1400. That is what I have and I am trying to get it to 'play nice' with my Pioneer AX4 (decodes up to and including DD-Ex and DTS-ES). What I was expecting was for the samsung's onboard decoders to do the business on the HD sound formats and then pass the pcm data to AX4 via hdmi. But no, all the AX4 receives is a messy pcm stereo signal which it then attempts to decode using a Pro-Logic format. What I am trying to ascertain from your comment above is whether what I'm trying to do with pcm from the player is possible, or whether the output of the HD is only through the 5.1 analogue outs? The reason I ask is because when I have tried that, I get 5.0 using the channel test on the samsung.

As an aside I was given a tip off that the next Yamaha receiver range will have HD audio support reaching to lower levels in the range (i.e. the 36x, 46x, 56x rather than just 66x and up). I haven't been able to confirm it yet.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

johna11

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#189792 15-Jan-2009 14:57

I know it's a different machine, but on my Sony BDP-S300, the default outputs for the decoded audio are awful downmixes too. The Bluray player has to be configured to output the correct format. It may be that the default setup for the player is that it will be connected direcvtly to a TV rather than a recevier, so it outputs stereo.

Jaxson

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#189801 15-Jan-2009 15:48

Dingbatt: Highlighted above you mentioned the samsung bd-p1400. That is what I have and I am trying to get it to 'play nice' with my Pioneer AX4

check the bluray disc, what audio format does it have?
The 1400 can not internally decode dts-ma from memory, but it can pass it still encoded to the receiver to decode.

On my receiver there's a silly setting to allow audio from both the receiver and the tv at the same time. In this mode though, everything works as 2 channel becuase that's all the tv can handle. If you have a tv audio pass through setting or anything similar on the receiver, turn it off.

sorry, wrote a good reply and it died, so this is an abbreviated fed up version 2 response.

Sounds like a jumbled weird surround sound is your receiver doing what it can with a 2 channel signal, so I'd check the players output settings first, you never know. Failing that I'm not familiar with that your specific gear sorry.

Regs

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Snowflake

#189898 15-Jan-2009 22:49

MCONZ: Hey all,

I have been watching this thread with interest and I would like to ask if anyone know if there are any receivers available at the moment for a reasonable price like the Onkyo 576 as forementioned? I have recently purchased a Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-ray player and am on the lookout for a receiver to complete my Home theatre but I am on a somewhat limited budget.

I have an onkyo tx-sr702 and i'm perfectly happy with it. I'd definately buy onkyo again. But i also see that eastern hifi has some good deals on the Denon gear at the moment too and i've always rated the denon stuff well.

http://www.easternhifi.co.nz/default,360,weekly_specials.sm

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Jaxson

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#189938 16-Jan-2009 09:22

Regs: But i also see that eastern hifi has some good deals on the Denon gear at the moment too and i've always rated the denon stuff well.

http://www.easternhifi.co.nz/default,360,weekly_specials.sm

From mammary you need the 1908 or higher to do the multichannel pcm in trick from the ps3 (or bluray player that can decode internally) thing. That means you're looking at $999 on special, which is still $300 more than the Onkyo 576.

I've had Sony and Pioneer receivers in the past and I've been very impressed with the Onkyo this time. The weaknesses are not really that bad, for instance the menus are on the Onkyo unit itself, but they are very clear, where as the Pioneer needed you to get the TV going to get to the menus.

There's the Yamaha RX-V563 but this is around $1399. Guess we should look to compile a list.

Sony's str-dg910 used to be the bottom model for lpcm but I see now the STRDG820S says it can do this. RRP is $999.95, so once again it looks like $1000 is the standard price to achieve this. The Onkyo on special was $699 or it has even been suggested it was down around $589 at one stage. So either way it's $300 cheaper than anything else but is now back up to $1099 I think for the 576 and $1800 for the 606, but that's not really needed if you have a PS3.

Dingbatt

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#189970 16-Jan-2009 11:42

johna11: I know it's a different machine, but on my Sony BDP-S300, the default outputs for the decoded audio are awful downmixes too. The Bluray player has to be configured to output the correct format. It may be that the default setup for the player is that it will be connected directly to a TV rather than a receiver, so it outputs stereo.

Yep that's it in a nutshell, however the samsung doesn't appear to have any configuration options for audio output. Just bitstream or pcm for digital out (which I assume is the optical out). I have tried it with a DD-TrueHD disk. But it looks like the BDP-300 is a bit more configurable, however its successor, the BDP-S350, doesn't have onboard decoding so I was considering the BDP-S550 which does, plus 7.1 analogue out. I won't buy another Samsung, as the only thing they seem to have going for them is their feature list vs. price. Pity Panasonic NZ is ignoring the DMP-BD55, which What Hi-Fi magazine rated their product of 2008, so we are stuck with the DMR-BD35, if you can find one.

On the Receiver front, AFAIK the new 09 Denon range, from 1909 up have the full codec support and that includes its chain store cousin, the 789. I'm going to wait until a reasonably priced receiver with full codec support appears (if that ever happens with the way the NZD is tanking at the moment). I will put up with just the core DD and DTS tracks until then. Personally my AX4 is going to end up being the sound system driver for everything that doesn't require HD decoding such as MyskyHDi and FreeviewHD. A job currently being carried out by an old VSX-608 in the lounge.

Jaxson, thank you for the input, the AX4 has an AMP/THROUGH setting for audio (set to AMP) however I have just realised that a plasma is connected to the same hdmi splitter as the amp so it may be telling the samsung player to send stereo. (It's a complicated setup that will be simplified now blu-ray players are around 600bucks). As far as long posts go...... I am now in the habit of highlighting my text and copying it before I post so if I have timed out I don't have to start again....

edit: like just happened....

This thread appears to be about making the most of the current equipment which vendors are still trying to quit to get some cash flow sorry for high-jacking it a bit.

Off to the beach now for a couple of weeks........ (sigh) no phones, no internet, no traffic. I look forward to checking this thread when I get back.......

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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Jaxson

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#189976 16-Jan-2009 11:58

set player to bitstream if you want the receiver to do the decoding.
set player to pcm if you want the player to do the decoding.
In your case, which is similar to mine etc, you'd want the player to do the decoding, so pcm is the setting you're after.

also make sure you actually select the hd audio tracks within the menus of the bluray disc you're playing, as sometimes it doesn't default to the good ones.

both the above are simple comments, but just thought I'd check them first.
And yes, despite having a complex system, try to configure it directly first just to rule out as many unknowns as possible.
So player hdmi to receiver in, receiver hdmi out to tv in initially etc.

The HD audio formats are capable of up to 18 - 24 ish mbit/sec data, but typically they sit between 3.5 and 5.5 ish, which is still a bit step up from 0.6 ish from DVD days. I think worth it if you can get it to go.

enjoy the holiday.
Jackson.

Dingbatt

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#192756 29-Jan-2009 17:39

Well I'm back and have tested the system by taking the hdmi splitter out of the chain, and viola pcm5.1 via hdmi

. Now I just need to hire a blu-ray with DD-TruHD and see how it goes. Looks promising, however it means another blu-ray player to feed the plasmas. Still another blu-ray player in the house isn't going to hurt.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Jaxson

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#193340 2-Feb-2009 09:10

Dingbatt: Well I'm back and have tested the system by taking the hdmi splitter out of the chain, and viola pcm5.1 via hdmi.

Congrats!

Where was the splitter in your system? I'm picking it was before the input to the receiver?
I'm hoping to use a splitter with my receiver, but I'm putting it on the output of the receiver to go off to two displays, (but will only use one display at a time).

Dingbatt

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#193537 2-Feb-2009 22:09

Jaxson:
Dingbatt: Well I'm back and have tested the system by taking the hdmi splitter out of the chain, and viola pcm5.1 via hdmi.
Congrats!

Where was the splitter in your system? I'm picking it was before the input to the receiver?
I'm hoping to use a splitter with my receiver, but I'm putting it on the output of the receiver to go off to two displays, (but will only use one display at a time).

The splitter was indeed before the receiver. I had separate outputs from the splitter going to 1. a 42"plasma, 2. the receiver and 3. my projector. I had to do it that way because the splitter was being fed by 4 different hdmi sources via a switch. The myskyhdi had to have an optical connection for 5.1 so that added to the complication.

So I bought another Blu-Ray player for the plasmas (found one at pre-christmas price) and put the samsung via the receiver to the projector. The samsung now does its thing via pcm and all is good with the home theatre. However.....

The hdmi switch (4x2) I use to feed the plasmas would appear to struggle with 1080p (3 of the sources are 1080i or lower). The samsung player used to give the occasional tic (picture disturbance) at 1080p and the new pana blu-ray just refuses to connect at 1080p (error U73). All is fine at 1080i and below but there is no way to permanently set the pana to 1080i because using the switch just makes it handshake and go back to 1080p. So I just mention the problem with 1080p in case the splitter you intend to use has similar difficulties.

So I have now connected the pana blu-ray directly to the 50"plasma and brought my old pioneer VSX-608 out of retirement for sound (DD and DTS only but good enough for the lounge). The 42"plasma will just have to live on a diet of the other HD (1080i) sources.

I believe HDMI and HDCP need another acronym added, PITA.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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