Vinyl Records Look So Cool, But....

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#2550784 27-Aug-2020 16:34

1101:

Many many years back , the BBC did double blind tests and found that slightly DEGRADING the sound quality gave a seemingly perceived improvement .

I did a double blind test (I think there's an page on US NPR which randomises the order of sample tracks on each page refresh). On a couple of tracks I repeatedly chose the 128mbps Mp3 as best over 256mbps mp3 and lossless flac or wav.

The DAC (external sound card) I've got reads/decodes DSD format, I've d/l music files sampled at double SACD rate (IIRC). The 44k / 16 bit PCM flac version of the file is about 48MB. The DSD file is 765MB. I still can't hear a difference - though to be fair I've got no way of randomly/blind switching.

I believe Amar Bose showed that in controlled tests, humans can't tell the difference between a square wave and sine wave at > 8khz. Great news - but then he went and made Bose 901s and other similarly horrible stuff.

Movieman

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#2551277 28-Aug-2020 13:36

The Vinyl revival seems to have attracted old and new collectors who are attracted to the Album packaging, and coloured options because they look "cool".

I did a little bit of research on whether Vinyl type packaging (Gatefold etc.) has ever been applied to CD's, and, as some of you will know, Japan release most of their CD's in Mini LP Sleeves. Japan still sells CD's in large quantities. So, I was wondering if any of our members have seen or own any of these CD Mini LP packages.

Maybe, if this format became more mainstream in the rest of the world, CD's would make a resurgence because they look "cool". Don't know how practical they are, but I'd love to try some.

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old3eyes

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#2551426 28-Aug-2020 16:00

Movieman:

The Vinyl revival seems to have attracted old and new collectors who are attracted to the Album packaging, and coloured options because they look "cool".

I did a little bit of research on whether Vinyl type packaging (Gatefold etc.) has ever been applied to CD's, and, as some of you will know, Japan release most of their CD's in Mini LP Sleeves. Japan still sells CD's in large quantities. So, I was wondering if any of our members have seen or own any of these CD Mini LP packages.

Maybe, if this format became more mainstream in the rest of the world, CD's would make a resurgence because they look "cool". Don't know how practical they are, but I'd love to try some.

I have a couple of CDs here that have cardboard holders with the opening cover like the old LPs had but most are the normal plastic case..

Regards,

Old3eyes

colinuu

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Master Geek

#2552185 29-Aug-2020 23:46

A fascinating topic and interesting discussion. I was expecting to see comments from the golden ears brigade who hear all sorts of bad stuff in digital music, but none of it off vinyl. Thankfully it seems gz'ers are above that sort of thing.

Fred99:

I believe Amar Bose showed that in controlled tests, humans can't tell the difference between a square wave and sine wave at > 8khz.

Not sure of the relevance of this, but this result is no surprise given that the first of the harmonics in the 8kHz square wave is well beyond the range of practically all human ears!

cshwone

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#2552219 30-Aug-2020 06:58

I am still using the turntable I bought as part of a system around 1980 https://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/ps-636.shtml

Coupled with a good Yamaha receiver and B&W speakers it all gives me a sound that I enjoy. It is of course totally subjective but the whole experience of using vinyl records with their tactile nature and the covers is immensely satisfying. Far more involvement in the music than just a search on Spotify.

elpenguino

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#2552322 30-Aug-2020 11:47

Nice unit. If I didn't already have a turntable or 3 and I needed one for general listening I'd be monitoring trade me and pick up one of the good late 70s / early 80s units that come up from time to time.

People who have these tend to look after them.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Movieman

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#2554716 1-Sep-2020 10:58

After being pressured by my son to get back into records (he is loving it), I crumbled, and decided that seeing as I am getting a new stereo receiver and speakers, its not gonna cost a lot more to add a turntable. I did do some research on the various "better" entry level offerings, and I decided to go for The Yamaha TT-S303. https://www.listeningpost.co.nz/Products/Turntables/Turntables/Yamaha-TT-S303-Turn-table-Turntable-vinyl-record-__I.260242__C.27341__N.27756

The cartridge that comes with the Yamaha is a fairly basic Audio Technica AT91, but I will try and cut a deal and get the VM91E. This cartridge is compatible with the stylus upgrades from AT. Once the cartridge is installed, its just a simple job of changing the stylus when/if I upgrade.

The hands on nature of turntables and the various collectible records, also helped to change my mind. I am retired, and it will be an enjoyable, and frustrating way to pass the time. I can't go on any cruises or overseas trips ATM, so I need to have an outlet for my money 🤑

So, I'm spending a lot of time online searching for inner/outer protective sleeves, cleaning brushes, cleaning kits etc., record storage racks, record collectors know how it goes.

I just ordered my first Album. Its the classic "Rumours" by Fleetwood Mac, in clear vinyl. I have decided on the Mofi inner sleeves, but can't decide on an outer sleeve. I would prefer separate sleeves for single and gatefold albums, and I need them to be clear. Any recommendations?

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#2554743 1-Sep-2020 12:13

I got into the vinyl thing about 4 years ago, have about 80-90 albums now. I try and limit myself to just buy stuff i like pretty much the entire album, or stuff that's a bit special, mostly buy new but use discogs a little. I use a Pro-Ject debut Carbon DC turntable and a pretty crappy amp/speaker setup I'll upgrade when i come back to NZ.

MikeAqua

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#2554812 1-Sep-2020 14:49

I don't miss vinyl at all. It probably sounds good compared to lossy MP3 formats, but a CD is by far the best physical medium I have listened to.

I prefer not to ever listen to less than CD quality. I've ripped an extensive collection to my NAS in lossless formats and some playlists on USB sticks for the cars.

On the move I just put up with Spotify premium.

Mike

Fred99

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#2554875 1-Sep-2020 15:35

There's quite a social movement associated with "vinyl revival" around here, collectors / enthusiasts spinning records at local pubs, cafes etc. Quite enjoyable with having a DJ select music to suit the mood of the crowd, playing rare/old recordings and a few new ones. Of course you could do the same with a tablet or phone connected to a PA and have arguable better sound quality - but it is what it is, and better than canned music or playlists of whatever the bar staff happened to put together some time ago.

I also like having "now playing" on the phone lock screen enabled - when I hear something I really like but don't recognise, then can either add it direct to "liked" tracks on YT Music - or review later the saved list if the next day I forgot what it was that I liked the night before. Also very good when watching some TV shows with awesome but relatively unknown music - beats the hell out of trying to read it in the credits. With that enabled, Mr Google probably listens to every word of conversation, but I don't care.

I know I had a blank period of about 15 years from about 1993 to 2010 where child-rearing took precedence and I got to know the lyrics to "Wheels on the Bus" then gave up. Most people of my senior age group seem to have suffered the same fate but never got over it, "all the good music stopped in the year XXXX".

WolfmanNZ

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Master Geek

#2563845 14-Sep-2020 16:21

Late to this thread but I too got bitten by the vinyl bug (thanks to my boss who sold me his old Project TT with a Denon DL-160 for stupid cheap when he upgraded to a Rega Planar 6) I was waiting for him to buy his new TT and had amassed about 40 albums before I actually had the means to play any! Very disapproving looks from the wife!

I agree with the sentiment of some of the other posters - the actual process of putting the album on and sitting down and enjoying it is a massive part of the experience rather than skipping through tracks or just having it as background music - for the latter I will just use Spotify. Sometimes you get the odd pop and crackle an yes definitely 'more inconvenience' but to me its worth it.

I do have some 2nd hand, mostly from Real Groovy on the odd Auckland trip or from a couple of Record Fairs we've had in Palmy. I got a Spin Disc cleaner which really improves the sound of albums, both new ones (with the manufacturing gunk removed) and then the 2nd hand ones getting rid of those grubby finger prints and other accumulated crap all over.

I think the first album I have had on 3 different formats was Straightjacket Fits 'Melt' - tape in 1991, then CD sometime in the mid nineties, and finally vinyl in 2019!

There are groups on FB for buying and selling vinyl locally and even just the simple appreciation of other peoples vinyl, and Discogs is a brilliant resource for looking into exactly what version of an album you are looking at buying (reviews on the different versions help you avoid buying a dud pressing, or reveal an album you didn't know existed from your favorite band!)

Technofreak

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#2564022 14-Sep-2020 19:58

I've started back on a project I started about 9 years ago, that is to record some of my vinyl to my laptop so that I can digitise it for use in my car.

I have pretty well all of it on tape already, and good quality tape at that, but as much as I've searched I cannot find a tape player in either of my cars. 🤣

So it's either convert the tapes to digital or use the original vinyl source.

The upshot is while getting things set up I decided to play a 45 I'd been given recently only to find when I changed from 33 to 45 the turntable stopped turning. The drive belt had come off. Over the years it has lost its tension. So before I can start a new belt is needed. 😒

At least they are readily available and at a reasonable price. 👍

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1101

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#2564309 15-Sep-2020 12:48

I just heard that Vinyl sales have exceeded CD sales in the US for the first time in umpteen years .
Are pre-recorded casseete tapes due for a comeback (god I hope not) :-)

The Luxman TT I bought in the 90's , would now be worth more than I actually paid for it. I do wish I kept it .
Some silly prices for very old TT's .

Dunnersfella

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#2564502 15-Sep-2020 17:10

Vinyl has exceeded CD's... but ultimately they have both lost out massively to streaming.

Vinyl may be slightly larger niche than it was 10 or so years ago, but many believe it's over its peak resurgence.

Fred99

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#2565497 15-Sep-2020 17:44

Link here to RIAA report (pdf).

Revenues from physical products of $376 million at
estimated retail value for first half 2020 were down 23%
year-over-year. There was a significant impact from music
retail and venue shutdown measures around Covid-19, as
Q1 2020 declines were significantly less than Q2 compared
with their respective periods the year prior. Revenues
from vinyl albums increased in Q1, but decreased in Q2,
resulting in a net overall increase of 4% for 1H 2020. Vinyl
album revenues of $232 million were 62% of total physical
revenues, marking the first time vinyl exceeded CDs for
such a period since the 1980’s, though it still only accounted
for 4% of total music recorded music revenues.

Note that the figures are based on revenue - not # of tracks/albums sold per format. (Vinyl is expensive).

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