Speculation that telecom are to charge for paper bills ??

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Speculation that telecom are to charge for paper bills ??

1 | 2 | 3 | 4

20515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4795

#936683 18-Nov-2013 15:09

shk292:
NonprayingMantis:
mattwnz: There are a number of problems with not receiving paper bills. Firstly you usually need to print them out anyway for tax or business reasons, and they are usually multiple pages

So not only do you need to print them out on your own paper and ink, unless you have a duplex printer, you are using wasting more paper than a bill in the mail would use, which would normally be double sided. So it is shifting the cost onto the consumer, as I am sure they are not reducing their fees they charge you.
Also it further erodes NZ Posts customer base, as I am sure that bills are a large part of the items that they deliver. So potentially with all businesses switching to email bills, it means more lost jobs and less delivery days etc. There are also the companies that manage the sending out of these bills, which is often subcontracted out, so more potential job losses there.
They also get lost amongst all the spam, and they sometimes you may miss them. So when you need them for tax purposes at the end of the year, you have to go back all through your emails, or long into their website, which is a pita.
It is also another job to do, in opening up the email and downloading the bill, and printing it out etc. Getting it in the mail is less work.

no you don't. you have to keep records, but they don't need to be paper records. I have never printed out any e-bills I have received.

the rest of your argument basically boils down to people arguing that the motorcar will put buggy whip manufacturers out of business.

Exactly. People seem to forget that companies only have one source of revenue - the customers - so arguing for inefficient systems to be retained just to preserve jobs is not sensible.
Far better to have electronic records, easily filed, retrieved and backed up, than reams of paper cluttering up the office

Yes but how do people actually store them. They may come in on an email, or you may get a link to download it. So are people then downloading them and saving them in a folder, which sounds like a hassle. What I do is just press the print button so there is no fiddling with folders, and then drag the email with the invoice to an invoices folder in email..
I think there is a business opportunity for an invoicing locker, where companies that email out invoices all get collected by a single locker, and the invoice automatically goes into a locker that is mirrored on your own computer (like dropbox). The thing is that backups can fail, data can get lost, staff may leave and you lose access, so it is good to have a physical copy of invoices as well as an online version. Plus my accountant prefers that I provide invoices in a folder for the time being at least.

mattwnz

20515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4795

#936694 18-Nov-2013 15:15

shk292:
Exactly. People seem to forget that companies only have one source of revenue - the customers - so arguing for inefficient systems to be retained just to preserve jobs is not sensible.
Far better to have electronic records, easily filed, retrieved and backed up, than reams of paper cluttering up the office

Your argument though is about cutting costs for the business, which will raise their profit margins as a direct result. But the customer doesn't benefit, as those cost savings aren't usually passed onto them. Instead they bear another cost in having to store that data (and making backups) on their computer, and/or printing it off. I do see you point though. However you do also need to realize that there will always be a certain percentage of people who will not have a computer, and there is a very high percentage of people who do not do proper backups or save their invoices, probably because it is too much of a hassle.

Inphinity

2780 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1184

#936698 18-Nov-2013 15:18

mattwnz:Plus my accountant prefers that I provide invoices in a folder for the time being at least.

Surprised they don't ask you to travel by mule and hand-deliver your engraved slates :P

Yyrael

222 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 45

Trusted

#936735 18-Nov-2013 15:47

Inphinity:
mattwnz:Plus my accountant prefers that I provide invoices in a folder for the time being at least.

Surprised they don't ask you to travel by mule and hand-deliver your engraved slates.

Lets try to be civil....

Customers who do not have access to the internet or a computer are a minority however they are definitively still catered for with paper bills still being available, however customers who have already registered for MyTelecom demonstrate a clear access to the internet and hence we prefer they access their bills online.

lucky015

746 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 182

ID Verified

Trusted

#936745 18-Nov-2013 16:04

Yyrael: While there is a push to phase out paper billing more and more I do not believe that there is any cost to retain these at this time. The option has been removed to get a paper bill from MyTelecom as part of this push however you are still able to request a paper bill by calling 123

That's odd, When I was trying to add a MyTelecom login for my grandmothers account last week I was told by one of your staff that paper bills would be removed and this could not be changed, This being the reason I stopped without creating the online account.

Yyrael

222 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 45

Trusted

#936771 18-Nov-2013 16:39

lucky015:
Yyrael: While there is a push to phase out paper billing more and more I do not believe that there is any cost to retain these at this time. The option has been removed to get a paper bill from MyTelecom as part of this push however you are still able to request a paper bill by calling 123

That's odd, When I was trying to add a MyTelecom login for my grandmothers account last week I was told by one of your staff that paper bills would be removed and this could not be changed, This being the reason I stopped without creating the online account.

I didn't think we had got to that phase yet, but if you were told that then we must be! In which case if you register for MyTelecom you do in fact have to have online billing.
If you use the new Naked Broadband you're also required to be billed online only.

HP

Shop now for HP laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

Batman

Mad Scientist
30014 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6217

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#936786 18-Nov-2013 17:17

Telecom managers are ingenius -

Spread a 'rumour'
Get discussed a geekzone
Survey response
Implement!

Lol

rugrat

3142 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 945

Lifetime subscriber

#936815 18-Nov-2013 17:54

Yyrael:
Inphinity:
mattwnz:Plus my accountant prefers that I provide invoices in a folder for the time being at least.

Surprised they don't ask you to travel by mule and hand-deliver your engraved slates.

Lets try to be civil....

Customers who do not have access to the internet or a computer are a minority however they are definitively still catered for with paper bills still being available, however customers who have already registered for MyTelecom demonstrate a clear access to the internet and hence we prefer they access their bills online.

I use to get mine online, and then telecom in their wisdom started charging for paying by credit card.

I now need my paper bill to go to nz post and pay as i'm not interested in direct debit when other companys take credit cards without charging and their prices compare to telecoms.

If they start charging for paper bills, i think my next action will be to change to a credit card friendly isp, my current form of protest is to pay at nz post.

A friend of mine when Vodafone started charging for paper bills, just didn't pay his bill. When they went to collect payment he said "what bill", he had never recieved one. He didn't use email either.

old3eyes

9158 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1364

Subscriber

#936847 18-Nov-2013 18:52

johnr:
old3eyes: The only paper bills I get now are the ASB back statements and Visa bill. I guess the day will come when they go electronic as well. I always have in the back of my mind "what if the email never gets thru"

Have you not stopped these online?

Not yet..

Regards,

Old3eyes

shk292

2916 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2040

Lifetime subscriber

#936920 18-Nov-2013 20:08

mattwnz:
shk292:
NonprayingMantis:
mattwnz: There are a number of problems with not receiving paper bills. Firstly you usually need to print them out anyway for tax or business reasons, and they are usually multiple pages

So not only do you need to print them out on your own paper and ink, unless you have a duplex printer, you are using wasting more paper than a bill in the mail would use, which would normally be double sided. So it is shifting the cost onto the consumer, as I am sure they are not reducing their fees they charge you.
Also it further erodes NZ Posts customer base, as I am sure that bills are a large part of the items that they deliver. So potentially with all businesses switching to email bills, it means more lost jobs and less delivery days etc. There are also the companies that manage the sending out of these bills, which is often subcontracted out, so more potential job losses there.
They also get lost amongst all the spam, and they sometimes you may miss them. So when you need them for tax purposes at the end of the year, you have to go back all through your emails, or long into their website, which is a pita.
It is also another job to do, in opening up the email and downloading the bill, and printing it out etc. Getting it in the mail is less work.

no you don't. you have to keep records, but they don't need to be paper records. I have never printed out any e-bills I have received.

the rest of your argument basically boils down to people arguing that the motorcar will put buggy whip manufacturers out of business.

Exactly. People seem to forget that companies only have one source of revenue - the customers - so arguing for inefficient systems to be retained just to preserve jobs is not sensible.
Far better to have electronic records, easily filed, retrieved and backed up, than reams of paper cluttering up the office

Yes but how do people actually store them. They may come in on an email, or you may get a link to download it. So are people then downloading them and saving them in a folder, which sounds like a hassle. What I do is just press the print button so there is no fiddling with folders, and then drag the email with the invoice to an invoices folder in email..
I think there is a business opportunity for an invoicing locker, where companies that email out invoices all get collected by a single locker, and the invoice automatically goes into a locker that is mirrored on your own computer (like dropbox). The thing is that backups can fail, data can get lost, staff may leave and you lose access, so it is good to have a physical copy of invoices as well as an online version. Plus my accountant prefers that I provide invoices in a folder for the time being at least.

I don't do anything to store mine. They arrive in my Gmail inbox and there they remain. If I want to access them, I search - for example a search for "vodafone fixed" takes about 1 second and shows every bill I have ever received, neatly sorted in date order. Total cost is zero. I can't see how this is more difficult than finding paper, ink, and/or physical storage space for paper bills, or less reliable than a filing cabinet that can be burnt/stolen/flooded. I quite like your locker idea but can't see what this offers over gmail, dropbox, drive etc etc

richms

29099 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10214

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#936971 18-Nov-2013 21:05

Emails with links to download are where I draw the line. It should arrive without any action on my part.

GEM visa trot out some lame security excuse for not emailing the bill, or emailing how much you have to pay and when etc. Annoys me so much that I am tempted to go back to paper billing and then post them back to them after scanning them like I do with the idiot power company late payment reminder letters that they wont stop posting via snail mail to me (they are nice enough to include the return envelope however)

Richard rich.ms

Lego

Shop now for Lego sets and other gifts (affiliate link).

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#936984 18-Nov-2013 21:27

mattwnz:
shk292:
NonprayingMantis:
mattwnz: There are a number of problems with not receiving paper bills. Firstly you usually need to print them out anyway for tax or business reasons, and they are usually multiple pages

So not only do you need to print them out on your own paper and ink, unless you have a duplex printer, you are using wasting more paper than a bill in the mail would use, which would normally be double sided. So it is shifting the cost onto the consumer, as I am sure they are not reducing their fees they charge you.
Also it further erodes NZ Posts customer base, as I am sure that bills are a large part of the items that they deliver. So potentially with all businesses switching to email bills, it means more lost jobs and less delivery days etc. There are also the companies that manage the sending out of these bills, which is often subcontracted out, so more potential job losses there.
They also get lost amongst all the spam, and they sometimes you may miss them. So when you need them for tax purposes at the end of the year, you have to go back all through your emails, or long into their website, which is a pita.
It is also another job to do, in opening up the email and downloading the bill, and printing it out etc. Getting it in the mail is less work.

no you don't. you have to keep records, but they don't need to be paper records. I have never printed out any e-bills I have received.

the rest of your argument basically boils down to people arguing that the motorcar will put buggy whip manufacturers out of business.

Exactly. People seem to forget that companies only have one source of revenue - the customers - so arguing for inefficient systems to be retained just to preserve jobs is not sensible.
Far better to have electronic records, easily filed, retrieved and backed up, than reams of paper cluttering up the office

Yes but how do people actually store them. They may come in on an email, or you may get a link to download it. So are people then downloading them and saving them in a folder, which sounds like a hassle. What I do is just press the print button so there is no fiddling with folders, and then drag the email with the invoice to an invoices folder in email..
I think there is a business opportunity for an invoicing locker, where companies that email out invoices all get collected by a single locker, and the invoice automatically goes into a locker that is mirrored on your own computer (like dropbox). The thing is that backups can fail, data can get lost, staff may leave and you lose access, so it is good to have a physical copy of invoices as well as an online version. Plus my accountant prefers that I provide invoices in a folder for the time being at least.

So apparently clicking 'save as' then saving to a folder is somehow less hassle than priniting off to paper, the taking paper and placing in a real physical folder.

I did my wife's taxes for several years before the Internet was a 'Thing' so all invoices were on paper. Not too bad for the first year, but after that we had storAge folders all over the place. Pain in the butt. And then if I needed to retrieve on a old bill it was a huge pain sortingn through hundreds of different paper sheets. Would have been much easier with all invoices all nicely organised on a computer, automatically dated etc

tardtasticx

3084 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 483

#937042 18-Nov-2013 23:00

Surely if you can no longer factor the cost of an invoice into your pricing, then something is wrong with your budget. I doubt printing prices have soared that high in the recent years.

mattwnz

20515 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4795

#937044 18-Nov-2013 23:12

NonprayingMantis:
So apparently clicking 'save as' then saving to a folder is somehow less hassle than priniting off to paper, the taking paper and placing in a real physical folder.

It is for me, as you have to think about which folder to put it on the computer. With invoices, I just press teh print button when I get it, put it in a invocies tray to reconcile later on, to make sure I haven't been double billed etc. So all the invoices for that month I physically check against bank statement, which is really easy when it is on paper and they are in order. Then when I get around to it I file the invoices in date order in a folder. That would be quite a hassle to do if doing to if they were all stored in folders. Although I do still do get quite a lot of paper invoices, so you also don't want half and half when reconciling them. Maybe people don't check their invoices against their bank statement these days to make sure there haven't been billing errors?

richms

29099 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10214

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#937049 18-Nov-2013 23:29

I check my statement against payments to check they are all there, that is usually part of my invoice with most things consumer oriented. no need for paper for that.

Paper is a pain. Want to look at it, its in another location. Cant foward it to people to get their share without scanning it.

Costs money to back paper up and that is a lossy process too.

Richard rich.ms

1 | 2 | 3 | 4