the 'bubble' - how was it for you?

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14 posts

Geek

#85173 3-Sep-2007 21:30

cokemaster:
quoick: I have been met with bewilderment when I have mentioned that I primarily use Linux and Thunderbird and have been forced to create both accounts in Outlook Express

Sounds like you might be having client issues if it doesn't work in Thunderbird but works fine in Outlook Express. Some clients have been known to have issues with SSL.

Yeah I thought that so I recreated my account (with a tech on the line because he wouldn't believe me that Thunderbird wasn't the problem and that I knew how to put in the correct settings) in Outlook Express on WinXP. The problem was the same. The error isn't client side but server side. This was evidenced by that lack of activity on the router on the server side and from the fact that I was able to receive email for a few days after the migration, then it just stopped. I hadn't changed anything or even installed anything. The Xtra techs have agreed that it must be on their end but are at a loss as to how to fix it. Apparently I am not alone.

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#85175 3-Sep-2007 21:37

quoick:
cokemaster:
quoick: I have been met with bewilderment when I have mentioned that I primarily use Linux and Thunderbird and have been forced to create both accounts in Outlook Express

Sounds like you might be having client issues if it doesn't work in Thunderbird but works fine in Outlook Express. Some clients have been known to have issues with SSL.

Yeah I thought that so I recreated my account (with a tech on the line because he wouldn't believe me that Thunderbird wasn't the problem and that I knew how to put in the correct settings) in Outlook Express on WinXP. The problem was the same. The error isn't client side but server side. This was evidenced by that lack of activity on the router on the server side and from the fact that I was able to receive email for a few days after the migration, then it just stopped. I hadn't changed anything or even installed anything. The Xtra techs have agreed that it must be on their end but are at a loss as to how to fix it. Apparently I am not alone.

Can you go to a service such as mail2web.com and try connecting to your Xtra account using SSL (click in the Advanced Login). I have no problems connecting to some Xtra accounts I monitor...

KiwiOverseas66

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#85176 3-Sep-2007 21:37

cokemaster:
quoick: I have been met with bewilderment when I have mentioned that I primarily use Linux and Thunderbird and have been forced to create both accounts in Outlook Express

Sounds like you might be having client issues if it doesn't work in Thunderbird but works fine in Outlook Express. Some clients have been known to have issues with SSL.

I'm using thunderbird into xtra - and was using it on the secure remote mail service (which is SSL) before the whole xtrabubble episode. I had that "send only" problem as well. What complicated the setup in my case was getting it to go through my realtime virus monitoring - but through trial and error I got it sorted out. Turns out from the client to the virus proxy - no secure connection (as this screws up the password relay) - but from the virus proxy to Xtra - secure to a dedicated port (that's how the virus proxy describes it). Works well.

freitasm

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#85178 3-Sep-2007 21:39

By the way, I connect to pop3.xtra.co.nz and I don't use SSL. Try it without SSL.

KiwiOverseas66

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#85182 3-Sep-2007 21:46

just had another thought.....had a problem for a while with the firefox password manager (also used by thunderbird). If I remember rightly, if the connection is down and thunderbird can't get through it drops the saved password - which means no pop mail next time you try to connect. Might also explain why you can send mail - no password required if its standard SMTP mail.

quoick

14 posts

Geek

#85185 3-Sep-2007 21:52

freitasm:
quoick:
cokemaster:
quoick: I have been met with bewilderment when I have mentioned that I primarily use Linux and Thunderbird and have been forced to create both accounts in Outlook Express

Sounds like you might be having client issues if it doesn't work in Thunderbird but works fine in Outlook Express. Some clients have been known to have issues with SSL.

Yeah I thought that so I recreated my account (with a tech on the line because he wouldn't believe me that Thunderbird wasn't the problem and that I knew how to put in the correct settings) in Outlook Express on WinXP. The problem was the same. The error isn't client side but server side. This was evidenced by that lack of activity on the router on the server side and from the fact that I was able to receive email for a few days after the migration, then it just stopped. I hadn't changed anything or even installed anything. The Xtra techs have agreed that it must be on their end but are at a loss as to how to fix it. Apparently I am not alone.

Can you go to a service such as mail2web.com and try connecting to your Xtra account using SSL (click in the Advanced Login). I have no problems connecting to some Xtra accounts I monitor...

I haven't tried and thanks for the suggestion but the real point is is that I should be able to download my email onto my computer like I was able to do before this Yahoo bubble thing was sprung upon us. It is a part of what I pay for every month. I am getting the same functionality by redirecting all my email (including the spam and what Xtra!Yahoo labels as spam) to my Gmail and from their I have POP3 access to Thunderbird. The migration was supposed to make our lives better (although IMHO it is using an inferior system to other online content providers) not make us come up with work-arounds because the whole system is flawed. When a system labels it's own email as spam (as was the case of an email from Xtra) then you know that something is not working correctly.

Thanks again for your suggestion though.

quoick

14 posts

Geek

#85189 3-Sep-2007 22:01

Thanks guys. These are all great suggestions but alas none of them are fixes. I have tried all of these. I don't run antivirus on Ubuntu so there is no problem there and I have disabled it in WinXP for trials with both Outlook Express and Thunderbird. I use NOD32 so the monitoring is only for Outlook Express anyway. I don't have a problem authenticating with the server, it just times out (and I have set the time to max on OE....still times out). Also one of the techs got me to log in without SSL, with SSL, with the old settings, with the new and with the SMTP and POP3 ports reversed. Still nothing.

Thanks again for taking your time out for the suggestions though.

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#85193 3-Sep-2007 22:23

What happens when you use pop3.xtra.co.nz 110, send.xtra.co.nz 587

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#85199 3-Sep-2007 22:56

quoick:

I haven't tried and thanks for the suggestion but the real point is is that I should be able to download my email onto my computer like I was able to do before this Yahoo bubble thing was sprung upon us. It is a part of what I pay for every month.

Sometimes upgrades are needed for a number of reasons. Your terms with Xtra (or any other provider) would surely cover this and any changes required as well.
At the same time, some upgrades change things (like the introduction of SSL), which can cause issues however at the same time its a balancing act between providing a service and providing improvements (in terms of portability (no more secure remote email) and security in this case) - Outlook has service packs released which fix a lot of the SSL issues and I would guess that Thunderbird should have some fix as well.

While it was planned with the best intentions, some things happen - hence the storm on forums, newspapers, TV. Which is also why they are giving a one week credit out to users too (which is nice for people who weren't having any issues).

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Geek

#85200 3-Sep-2007 23:00

cokemaster: What happens when you use pop3.xtra.co.nz 110, send.xtra.co.nz 587

Nothing unfortunately.

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#85201 3-Sep-2007 23:04

Have you logged it through to Xtra? Are they able to replicate it on their test machines?

If so, are they looking into it?

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quoick

14 posts

Geek

#85205 3-Sep-2007 23:24

cokemaster:
quoick:

I haven't tried and thanks for the suggestion but the real point is is that I should be able to download my email onto my computer like I was able to do before this Yahoo bubble thing was sprung upon us. It is a part of what I pay for every month.

Sometimes upgrades are needed for a number of reasons. Your terms with Xtra (or any other provider) would surely cover this and any changes required as well.
At the same time, some upgrades change things (like the introduction of SSL), which can cause issues however at the same time its a balancing act between providing a service and providing improvements (in terms of portability (no more secure remote email) and security in this case) - Outlook has service packs released which fix a lot of the SSL issues and I would guess that Thunderbird should have some fix as well.

While it was planned with the best intentions, some things happen - hence the storm on forums, newspapers, TV. Which is also why they are giving a one week credit out to users too (which is nice for people who weren't having any issues).

These are good points but this isn't really an upgrade. This is a partnership whereby the ISP that we signed up with is offloading a part of their business at the behest of their partner in an attempt to increase their user base (and to appear like serious competition to Google). What did we get in the way of upgrades? An instant messanger; web based email access; Flickr. These things already existed and cost us nothing or were part of the existing infrastructure (we just had to sign up for them if we were interested in them). An implementation of SSL doesn't necessitate the moving of our mail servers to Australia to be serviced by a third party. It can be done locally without the upheaval that has happened. It can be done so that the only time we were aware of it would be when we had to change our smtp and pop settings. An upgrade by definition does mean a downgrading of services as we have seen with the amount of spam and the ludicrous situation with false positives.

As for patching Thunderbird for SSL issues, I am unaware of any as there have been no issues in this regard for many releases. I switched to Thunderbird after a virus exploited an OE vulnerability and executed itself with no input from me (I didn't even open it) and the amount of time it took for Microsoft to acknowledge and patch it.

I'm not having a go here. I am glad that there has been response. I agree with most of your points and I am the upgrade king usually. I just don't see that we have been upgraded. When I was a chef, I learned a very important lesson that has stood me well in all facets of life and I think fits this situation here. There is no point in attempting to cook Duck a l'Orange if you can't make chicken stock. To translate: there is no point in attempting to be fancy if you can not get the basics right.

quoick

14 posts

Geek

#85206 3-Sep-2007 23:31

cokemaster: Have you logged it through to Xtra? Are they able to replicate it on their test machines?

If so, are they looking into it?

Hi cokemaster. If you read my initial post you will see that I have spent countless hours on the phone to Xtra. I have had a couple of techs that were good, a couple that were not and one that was just straight out arrogant, rude and a pain in the a$$. They have basically admitted that it does not appear to be a client side error but they have no idea how to fix it and have offloaded it to Yahoo in Australia. They said it would take 2 days at that point but that was 4 days ago.

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#85207 3-Sep-2007 23:41

What did we get in the way of upgrades?

According to the yourbubble website

You get 10 additional mailboxes (not aliases) per account. Previously you only had 5 aliases for one mailbox.
Unlimited mailbox storage. Previously 100MB storage with 30 day read/60 day unread expiration.
Flickrpro. Not provided previously.
1GB online storage with YahooXtra Briefcase. Not provided previously.
Norton Antivirus (coming soon, according to webpage). Not provided previously - only the paid version for 'Xtra Security suite'
Ability to customize your homepage. Not provided previously.
No more requirements for secure remote emails to send emails out from non xtra networks. Only recently made free.

An upgrade by definition does mean a downgrading of services as we have seen with the amount of spam and the ludicrous situation with false positives.

Do you consider the above to be downgrading? Not everyone is experiencing a 'ludicrous' amount of false positives as I can confirm on my accounts that more or less the level of spam is coming in normally (read: most are getting flagged as spam).

However there are the odd issues, thus any issues that you come across which are account/server (rather than 3rd party client issues) related should be reported to the ISP in question, which is Xtra.

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KiwiOverseas66

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#85209 4-Sep-2007 01:18

quoick: Thanks guys. These are all great suggestions but alas none of them are fixes. I have tried all of these. I don't run antivirus on Ubuntu so there is no problem there and I have disabled it in WinXP for trials with both Outlook Express and Thunderbird. I use NOD32 so the monitoring is only for Outlook Express anyway. I don't have a problem authenticating with the server, it just times out (and I have set the time to max on OE....still times out). Also one of the techs got me to log in without SSL, with SSL, with the old settings, with the new and with the SMTP and POP3 ports reversed. Still nothing.

Thanks again for taking your time out for the suggestions though.

Grrrrr....bloody frustrating I can imagine. Since you've obviously got a couple of different op systems running and tried using various clients - you obviously know how to make this stuff hang together. I'll post my Thunderbird settings below on the remote chance it may help, and leave it at that. Goodluck.

pop settings (pop3r.xtra.co.nz)
port 995
TLS static (not when available)
use secure authentication - uncheckedd (this is done by the proxy)

smtp ( smtpr.xtra.co.nz)
port 465
TLS static (not when available)
use name and password - checked
use secure authentication - unchecked (this is done by the proxy)

So as mentioned - I'm still on Xtra's secure remote mail (hence the pop3r and smtpr) and going through a proxy - so in my proxy it reads

email POP3 client server settings - server:"proxyxxx",login:"user" (proxyxxx being my proxy IP, but would normally be pop3.xtra.co.nz)

email SMTP client server settings - proxyxxxx:465 (again proxyxxx is my proxy IP address, but would normally be smtp. blah blah blah).

Once the proxy connects, password manager does its jobs - authenticates, viola. Again really sorry if this is stating the obvious.

cheers

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