Spark sinks to a new low..

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Spark sinks to a new low..

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

#2067195 3-Aug-2018 00:06

I wish ISPs would just offer all their customers the same price and deal, but then reward those customers who have been with them for the longest period. At the moment it is the reverse, and new customers appear to be rewarded more than existing customers. The current system is setup so customers are likely better off switching to a new ISP every year, due to all the incentives that different ISPs offer to signing up a new customer on a contract. The alternative is for the existing ISP to offer the same deal they offer to new customers, for a set minimum contract. ISPs do tend to have large break fees for breaking the contract too. So this is where door knockers come in. It used to be cold callers, but I think there has been a backlash against cold callers these days, so the stats probably show that they aren't as effective these days has door knockers.

All this maybe due to it being quite a competitive market. But the fact is that consumers have all the power, and it is recommended by consumer advocates to shop around for the best deal, as it is largely a commodity service these days.

There is a saying...It is far easier and cheaper to retain a customer, than to get a new customer.

I don't think some ISPs realize this when charging existing customers more, than what they charge new customers for the same service, when taking into consideration the signup benefits that are offered to new customers. Existing customers also may feel that they subsidsing the new customers cheaper service.

mattwnz

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

#2067197 3-Aug-2018 00:09

Aredwood: Scenario- I'm not currently a Spark customer, but I'm considering signing up to Spark.

I check the Spark and My Republic websites. My Republic have a better offer, so I sign up with them.

1 month later, Spark DTD salesperson visits, and they have the same or better offer than My Republic. But I can't sign up with Spark, as I'm now in a contract with My Republic.

If I could have requested a visit, or if offer was available on all sales channels, I would have signed up with Spark instead.

Seems very logical. But I suspect the offer the door knocker is offering, and the costs associated with door knocking, come out of the marketing budget.

I have heard that in some cases the company the door knocker is representing, will pay the break fee, in order to get the customers business.

eracode

Smpl Mnmlst
9334 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6203

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2067238 3-Aug-2018 08:49

mattwnz:
I wish ISPs would just offer all their customers the same price and deal, but then reward those customers who have been with them for the longest period. At the moment it is the reverse, and new customers appear to be rewarded more than existing customers. The current system is setup so customers are likely better off switching to a new ISP every year, due to all the incentives that different ISPs offer to signing up a new customer on a contract. The alternative is for the existing ISP to offer the same deal they offer to new customers, for a set minimum contract. ISPs do tend to have large break fees for breaking the contract too. So this is where door knockers come in. It used to be cold callers, but I think there has been a backlash against cold callers these days, so the stats probably show that they aren't as effective these days has door knockers.

All this maybe due to it being quite a competitive market. But the fact is that consumers have all the power, and it is recommended by consumer advocates to shop around for the best deal, as it is largely a commodity service these days.

There is a saying...It is far easier and cheaper to retain a customer, than to get a new customer.

I don't think some ISPs realize this when charging existing customers more, than what they charge new customers for the same service, when taking into consideration the signup benefits that are offered to new customers. Existing customers also may feel that they subsidsing the new customers cheaper service.

True and unfortunately it’s the same model with Sky, powercos etc. Very annoying and so unfair - so, so unfair.

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9996

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#2067239 3-Aug-2018 08:54

eracode:

True and unfortunately it’s the same model with Sky, powercos etc. Very annoying and so unfair - so, so unfair.

As much as you may think it's unfair, it's what happens in a competitive retail marketplace.

It's much like petrol at present - the regional discounting and subsidies we're seeing is a result of an incredibly competitive retail marketplace.

Nil Einne

469 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35

#2067726 3-Aug-2018 19:58

As others have said, the original post here is quite confusing. This is hardly new behaviour from Spark. They've been doing it for years. Definitely when they were still Telecom and before TrustPower got into the internet game in a major way, and probably for longer than MyRepublic or UFB for that matter existed in NZ.

As others have also said, Spark D2D knockers do seem better than some of the worst ones. Notably Spark D2D actually offer better deals than you can get yourself. By comparison MyRepublic and some others often seem to only offer what they advertise on their website. Worse is they sometimes misleading claim this isn't the case. I was also offered 1 year half price by a MyRepublic D2D but was signed up for 6 months half price! They never did anything other than apologise but I stuck with them since they still had the best deal at the time. (Especially since 100/50 was so rare.)

I should clarify that I don't actually like the practice of super deals from D2D knockers, it's annoying since as others have said, it means you often can't easily get the best deal. It's just that if you are going to D2D, I find it pointless if it's just the same stuff I can get online. (But I'm fine with D2D even then provided they don't lie and claim it's a unique deal or whatever.)

mattwnz

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

#2067729 3-Aug-2018 20:01

sbiddle:

eracode:

True and unfortunately it’s the same model with Sky, powercos etc. Very annoying and so unfair - so, so unfair.

As much as you may think it's unfair, it's what happens in a competitive retail marketplace.

It's much like petrol at present - the regional discounting and subsidies we're seeing is a result of an incredibly competitive retail marketplace.

Absolutely. This is why consumers should also take advantage of it, rather than feeling bad for playing one business off against another. It is also one reason why consumer groups have setup these price comparison websites. I guess the ideal customer of ISPs, is those customers who can't be bothered checking pricing and whether they are getting the best deal or not.

Dell

Shop now for Dell laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

Jogre

182 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 40

#2068472 6-Aug-2018 10:02

I dislike charities doing door-to-door, especially when you still have misgivings around how much money actually reaches the target of that charity. I donate to Save the Children when I can however Unicef came knocking the other week nigh on demanding I file a tax return on my donations and give it to them...

MyRepublic came D2D when I was doing the pre-purchase inspection on my house, $75/mth for unlimited gigabit fibre which I signed up to. Unfortunately, 9 months later I'm no closer to getting it and MR is in no hurry to deliver it (or shake a stick at Chorus on my behalf) so I'm still running on the 'interim' VDSL connection until I can find someone who won't place me behind a CG-NAT circuit.

Jono Green

Microsoft New Zealand

nunz

1421 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 314
Inactive user

#2069577 7-Aug-2018 22:13

mattwnz:

sbiddle:

eracode:

True and unfortunately it’s the same model with Sky, powercos etc. Very annoying and so unfair - so, so unfair.

As much as you may think it's unfair, it's what happens in a competitive retail marketplace.

It's much like petrol at present - the regional discounting and subsidies we're seeing is a result of an incredibly competitive retail marketplace.

Absolutely. This is why consumers should also take advantage of it, rather than feeling bad for playing one business off against another. It is also one reason why consumer groups have setup these price comparison websites. I guess the ideal customer of ISPs, is those customers who can't be bothered checking pricing and whether they are getting the best deal or not.

Disagree - this is the reason we have poor service, shocking services and failing systems. The dive for the bottom of the pool price wise kills businesses and is of benefit to no one. No matter how low you dive, there is always someone prepared to dive lower. No one wins in a price war.

Quality, service and sustainability should be the keywords in business. It is better for a client to pay a little more and get what they need than offer an upfront cut price and fail to deliver.

Example: New person called me yesterday with 2 x laptops that failed, bought for $300 each from a cut price supplier. its going to cost $120 each, flat price to get them fixed up. The problem? Under performing CPU, under performing hard drive, low memory - over loaded by windows 10, Updates and a heavy Mcaffee anti virus.

They will never get what they want from those items and will pay and pay and pay for spending less.

Then they become e Waste which costs us environmentally, monetarily etc in the dumping and refuse costs. Everyone loses.

Its bad business practice. it hurts customers. End of story.

As a consumer show loyalty, reward good service, think about the person selling to you - they need to live. If you treat them like a slave, paying them a pittance - what does that say about you ?You wouldn't want to live that way - don't do it to others. you only hurt yourself rewarding this type of behavior. Set an example, lead by generosity. Live freely - not counting pennies. Penny wise, pound foolish.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2069628 8-Aug-2018 07:28

nunz:

mattwnz:

sbiddle:

eracode:

True and unfortunately it’s the same model with Sky, powercos etc. Very annoying and so unfair - so, so unfair.

As much as you may think it's unfair, it's what happens in a competitive retail marketplace.

It's much like petrol at present - the regional discounting and subsidies we're seeing is a result of an incredibly competitive retail marketplace.

Absolutely. This is why consumers should also take advantage of it, rather than feeling bad for playing one business off against another. It is also one reason why consumer groups have setup these price comparison websites. I guess the ideal customer of ISPs, is those customers who can't be bothered checking pricing and whether they are getting the best deal or not.

Disagree - this is the reason we have poor service, shocking services and failing systems. The dive for the bottom of the pool price wise kills businesses and is of benefit to no one. No matter how low you dive, there is always someone prepared to dive lower. No one wins in a price war.

Quality, service and sustainability should be the keywords in business. It is better for a client to pay a little more and get what they need than offer an upfront cut price and fail to deliver.

Example: New person called me yesterday with 2 x laptops that failed, bought for $300 each from a cut price supplier. its going to cost $120 each, flat price to get them fixed up. The problem? Under performing CPU, under performing hard drive, low memory - over loaded by windows 10, Updates and a heavy Mcaffee anti virus.

They will never get what they want from those items and will pay and pay and pay for spending less.

Then they become e Waste which costs us environmentally, monetarily etc in the dumping and refuse costs. Everyone loses.

Its bad business practice. it hurts customers. End of story.

As a consumer show loyalty, reward good service, think about the person selling to you - they need to live. If you treat them like a slave, paying them a pittance - what does that say about you ?You wouldn't want to live that way - don't do it to others. you only hurt yourself rewarding this type of behavior. Set an example, lead by generosity. Live freely - not counting pennies. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Its the customers that drive this. They want better service and so on, but they also want the lowest price, and most will take the lowest price. If a company decided to market their wares based on highest price and best service, that will be a problem if its a now generic product or service. In that its electricity, I don't care who I get it from. The Mercedes vs Toyota selling point is difficult for a generic service or product

andrew027

1286 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 557

#2069645 8-Aug-2018 08:30

@1101: Cant see the issue with door to door selling.
Just say "Not interested" & close the door, its not a big deal.

^ This. I'm not anti-door-to-door sales per se, but it bugs me that they usually have some script to work through to attract your interest and get you on side before springing their offer. I don't want to listen to five minutes of preamble. I just want to hear "Hi, I'm from [company] and we're promoting a deal where you get [whatever service] for [whatever cost], which is [whatever saving] over [our/our competitor's] usual rate. Would you like to know some more about it?"

So as soon as they start the waffle I politely interrupt and ask "But what's the deal you're selling?" and I keep doing that until I get a direct answer.

If I'm interested, I'll listen, e.g. last year I was already thinking about changing my electricity supplier when one knocked on the door. I didn't go with them in the end, but I did listen because I wanted to know what they were offering.

And if I'm not interested, I'll say "Thanks, but I'm not interested." and close the door.

nunz

1421 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 314
Inactive user

#2071511 10-Aug-2018 20:21

tdgeek:

nunz:

mattwnz:

sbiddle:

eracode:

True and unfortunately it’s the same model with Sky, powercos etc. Very annoying and so unfair - so, so unfair.

As much as you may think it's unfair, it's what happens in a competitive retail marketplace.

It's much like petrol at present - the regional discounting and subsidies we're seeing is a result of an incredibly competitive retail marketplace.

Absolutely. This is why consumers should also take advantage of it, rather than feeling bad for playing one business off against another. It is also one reason why consumer groups have setup these price comparison websites. I guess the ideal customer of ISPs, is those customers who can't be bothered checking pricing and whether they are getting the best deal or not.

Disagree - this is the reason we have poor service, shocking services and failing systems. The dive for the bottom of the pool price wise kills businesses and is of benefit to no one. No matter how low you dive, there is always someone prepared to dive lower. No one wins in a price war.

Quality, service and sustainability should be the keywords in business. It is better for a client to pay a little more and get what they need than offer an upfront cut price and fail to deliver.

Example: New person called me yesterday with 2 x laptops that failed, bought for $300 each from a cut price supplier. its going to cost $120 each, flat price to get them fixed up. The problem? Under performing CPU, under performing hard drive, low memory - over loaded by windows 10, Updates and a heavy Mcaffee anti virus.

They will never get what they want from those items and will pay and pay and pay for spending less.

Then they become e Waste which costs us environmentally, monetarily etc in the dumping and refuse costs. Everyone loses.

Its bad business practice. it hurts customers. End of story.

As a consumer show loyalty, reward good service, think about the person selling to you - they need to live. If you treat them like a slave, paying them a pittance - what does that say about you ?You wouldn't want to live that way - don't do it to others. you only hurt yourself rewarding this type of behavior. Set an example, lead by generosity. Live freely - not counting pennies. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Its the customers that drive this. They want better service and so on, but they also want the lowest price, and most will take the lowest price. If a company decided to market their wares based on highest price and best service, that will be a problem if its a now generic product or service. In that its electricity, I don't care who I get it from. The Mercedes vs Toyota selling point is difficult for a generic service or product

1 - In a herd humans are dumb. We follow the herd and like lemmings often end up taking a one way cliff jumping tour.

2 - My mother always said just because Jo(e) did x does that mean you should? She was right.

3 - Customers aside - what about YOU? ....YOU can either be part of the answer or go along with the status quo. Be a world changer. Think globally - act locally. Screw the results - live with a clean conscience. live like you want to see the world live. Dance like no one is watching.

Mighty Ape

Shop now at Mighty Ape (affiliate link).

mattwnz

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4797

#2071589 11-Aug-2018 00:02

nunz:

Disagree - this is the reason we have poor service, shocking services and failing systems. The dive for the bottom of the pool price wise kills businesses and is of benefit to no one. No matter how low you dive, there is always someone prepared to dive lower. No one wins in a price war.

From my experience, price has little to do with poor service and wait times etc. If that was true, then when you phone one of the big banks, which make huge profits, you would be able to get though to a proper knowledgeable staff member straight away. Instead they also tend to use call centres, and getting the right information can be like pulling teeth. I was on the phone for over an hour with my bank recently, first I was on hold for 20 minutes before they answered. Then they had to go away 3 times to get my question answered, each time being on hold for another 15 minutes. In the end someone was supposed to email me back, but they haven't, so I have to endure another call back to the bank.

I also have purchased some expensive appliances recently, and these are premium brands, and had the same types of problems with poor support and staff who don't have the required knowledge.

Personally I have found ISP service to be better than other industries, although I haven't had to call my ISP for many years for support, except when negotiating a new contract.

The fact is that any management of a company will look at ways of cutting cost to maximize profit, and often front end support is one way they do this.

epr

267 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 132

Lifetime subscriber

#2071603 11-Aug-2018 05:29

freitasm:
Explain how is this a low, please? Were they disrespectful, lied or coerced the home person somehow?

Trying to get Lias as a customer?

Here is my Quic referral https://account.quic.nz/refer/39513 if you are keen to change ISP and to get free setup (save $29). I will get a $50 credit if you use this. Thank you very much if you use my link but I'm sure there are quite a few others who could share the same on here, no hard feelings if you use a different link.

nunz

1421 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 314
Inactive user

#2071859 11-Aug-2018 18:45

mattwnz:

nunz:

Disagree - this is the reason we have poor service, shocking services and failing systems. The dive for the bottom of the pool price wise kills businesses and is of benefit to no one. No matter how low you dive, there is always someone prepared to dive lower. No one wins in a price war.

From my experience, price has little to do with poor service and wait times etc. If that was true, then when you phone one of the big banks, which make huge profits, you would be able to get though to a proper knowledgeable staff member straight away. Instead they also tend to use call centres, and getting the right information can be like pulling teeth. I was on the phone for over an hour with my bank recently, first I was on hold for 20 minutes before they answered. Then they had to go away 3 times to get my question answered, each time being on hold for another 15 minutes. In the end someone was supposed to email me back, but they haven't, so I have to endure another call back to the bank.

I also have purchased some expensive appliances recently, and these are premium brands, and had the same types of problems with poor support and staff who don't have the required knowledge.

Personally I have found ISP service to be better than other industries, although I haven't had to call my ISP for many years for support, except when negotiating a new contract.

The fact is that any management of a company will look at ways of cutting cost to maximize profit, and often front end support is one way they do this.

I agree - management often kills support to cut costs and price is no indicator but....

Price wars and the race to the bottom of the barrel are directly attributable to smaller businesses going under. They are also directly attributable to the reasons some businesses give bad service - if you dont have the resources (money) then you cant provide good service, you do longer hours, you pressure your staff and cut corners - this eventually leads to bad things for clients.

My point is to support and be loyal to businesses which do put effort back into their client support and product care. Case in point - Viewsonic - sold their product for almost 20 years. Good service (the very few times i needed it) and good product. Happy to not scrape the barrel with what ever new brand is trying to undercut. If a client requests the cheap as stuff - I point them in the direction of another supplier as i don't want the pain that will go with it.

My clients trust me to look after their end of things - and they tend to look after me. Price is not the decider for them - service is. when our supplier tried to push me to a new non viewsonic product (I'ld make more margin on) - I said no and stuck with Viewsonic. Less profit for me - but far better for the client. Most of my clients have been with me in excess of 10 years - partly because while we do keep price in mind, we don't cut corners with cheap stuff.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2071871 11-Aug-2018 19:30

nunz:

I agree - management often kills support to cut costs and price is no indicator but....

Price wars and the race to the bottom of the barrel are directly attributable to smaller businesses going under. They are also directly attributable to the reasons some businesses give bad service - if you dont have the resources (money) then you cant provide good service, you do longer hours, you pressure your staff and cut corners - this eventually leads to bad things for clients.

My point is to support and be loyal to businesses which do put effort back into their client support and product care. Case in point - Viewsonic - sold their product for almost 20 years. Good service (the very few times i needed it) and good product. Happy to not scrape the barrel with what ever new brand is trying to undercut. If a client requests the cheap as stuff - I point them in the direction of another supplier as i don't want the pain that will go with it.

My clients trust me to look after their end of things - and they tend to look after me. Price is not the decider for them - service is. when our supplier tried to push me to a new non viewsonic product (I'ld make more margin on) - I said no and stuck with Viewsonic. Less profit for me - but far better for the client. Most of my clients have been with me in excess of 10 years - partly because while we do keep price in mind, we don't cut corners with cheap stuff.

I think the choice you make and your customer makes is not a choice for some industries where the obscene competition forces price competition, with the corresponding need to cut costs.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6