What happened to free speech ?

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#57427 10-Jan-2007 05:57

freitasm: I work for myself, from home (and sometimes I work wherever I am, be it Melbourne, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Seattle) ...

You forgot to add Johnsonville to your list of globe trotting cities.....

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#57428 10-Jan-2007 06:09

Really Wellington (Johnsonville is a suburb), and we should include even Pauatahanui...

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#57442 10-Jan-2007 10:03

I'm all for full and frank discussion, but I meant it when I said antigrav's post wasn't constructive. There are a number of views on the subject of broadband here on Geekzone, ranging from those who say that we don't need it to those who want faster and better service than what's available now for a variety of reasons.

My opinion which is on public record is that New Zealand can and must do better in the broadband area, and I'm surprised that I'm being asked to clarify that.

Finally, my position on discussions is that anything goes but in a civil manner. I know, I know, this is the Internet which means people sit behind networked computers and don't use their real names - and say things in forum postings that they would never tell you to your face.

Seriously, there's no need for that. One of the things that struck me about Public Address System is that even though they're debating political and sociological issues, there's no or very little flaming and personal attacks in the forums. We're not talking about anything nearly as contentious in the Geekzone forums, so why is it so hard to remain courteous to each other?

Juha

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#57444 10-Jan-2007 10:13

juha: ...so why is it so hard to remain courteous to each other?

Juha my buddy... the reason is because, in today's world, "courtesy" is a myth to many people, younger generation do no understand or even see courtesy as being "cool" or "good"... which I am greatly disappointed.

Coolness only gets to so far, courtesy stretches you further and bring great positive vibe to yourself, others that around you and in indirect way, it carries on with others and so on.

So yeah, let just remind ourselves once again, courtesy is important and it is what set human, more human.

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grant_k

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#57455 10-Jan-2007 10:56

juha: ...so why is it so hard to remain courteous to each other?

Hear, Hear!

I asked Cokemaster a fair question yesterday and he gave me a fair answer. He has his reasons for not disclosing who he works for, and that's fine. He has made the following statement:

"What industry and whom I work for in general is confidential (additionally due to contractual arrangements). I can see the logic already 'Ah he hasn't said no so he must work for them', however I have adapted the policy of nether confirming nor denying."

However, we do know it's a "telecommunications company here in New Zealand", he says so in his blog, but as for which one, we know that this company has a policy of not allowing their staff to disclose who they work for when posting in forums such as these.

I think that Vodafone's approach is better. JohnR is one who we know works for Vodafone. Clearly they don't prohibit their staff from divulging their affiliation, yet he makes the following disclaimer at the end of each post:

Comments I make in posts are my own views/findings and do NOT reflect my place of employment in any way!

This is a very sensible approach I would have thought. Another telco who appears to be quite happy for their staff to divulge their affilation is TelstraClear (for example TCLTECH and others).

As Mauricio has said earlier this morning, there is no hard and fast requirement for anyone here to divulge who they work for. In Cokemaster's case, it appears that he has no choice in the matter, so end of discussion.

However, for others who are free to disclose their affiliation, it adds a lot to the credibility of their opinions if readers can see that they are coming from an unbiased viewpoint. Journallists especially are always very keen to be upfront with their readers and there's a lot to be said for that approach.

Now, coming back to the matter of courtesy in these forums i.e. attacking the idea without personally attacking the poster. At times it is sadly lacking on the part of a small number of people.

For example, in the course of this thread, we have the following tirade of outbursts from Brad Stewart:
=============================================================
I don't like it and I won't butt out.

Also there is no free speech on Geekzone, it is private property

We answer to nobody but Mauricio let alone a bunch of trolls.

Let me sum up: NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS!

=============================================================
GZ'ers who have been around for the past couple of months have also witnessed Brad's defamatory attack on a University of Otago lecturer and subsequent furious backpedalling.

I think it's fair to say that Brad is hot-tempered and quickly flares into personal attacks as witnessed above. In short, he is the most IMMODERATE moderator I have yet to encounter in any on-line forum. I believe that if he is given enough rope, he will eventually hang himself and I will leave my comments at that.

It is fair enough for the moderators of GZ to point out that it is private property. But if they manage it in a style akin to Idi Amin i.e. as contemptuous dictators, it won't take too long for the word to get around that GZ is no longer a good place to be.

As we have seen in recent Press Releases, GZ is experiencing huge growth at the moment. But this could reverse just as quickly if users are treated in a contemptuous manner i.e. they will pack up their toys and go to play in someone else's sandpit.

muppet

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#57462 10-Jan-2007 11:46

@Grant17: Well said. The attitude of the moderators here is the main reason I no longer visit GZ very much at all. Which is a shame, because it used to be fun. Now it's just funny.

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#57466 10-Jan-2007 12:06

Come back Muppet... we miss you :)

Juha

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#57472 10-Jan-2007 14:55

Folks... I understand your frustation on this. Please try to understand our side. First I am out of the country and can't be that responsive. The moderator's job is to make sure things keep ticking along in the forums, prevent discussions going off topic (although this happens a lot), and ensure people don't go trolling.

We need a constructive group, people who can help each other and provide good information to visitors - those who come here once only, and don't come back... They actually do, if they have a good impression, but lurking in the background.

Obviously as explained before there's no need for a moderator to disclose employement relations. If a thread is locked, I doubt it is because of Company A or Company B influencing this, because neither Company A or Company B hold any interest on this property. And if I had an indication that someone was being influenced by any outsider then that person's moderation rights will be revoked (not would, but will).

As for Brad's resplies, well, that's his style, and we know reading things is always harder to get the gist of some ideas, but I met Brad twice and he sure won't go around punching people... No need for you to worry.

So, please, let's see this thread die and concentrate in bulding a great community.

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#57484 10-Jan-2007 15:35

Grant17:
I think it's fair to say that Brad is hot-tempered and quickly flares into personal attacks as witnessed above. In short, he is the most IMMODERATE moderator I have yet to encounter in any on-line forum. I believe that if he is given enough rope, he will eventually hang himself and I will leave my comments at that.

It is fair enough for the moderators of GZ to point out that it is private property. But if they manage it in a style akin to Idi Amin i.e. as contemptuous dictators, it won't take too long for the word to get around that GZ is no longer a good place to be.

As we have seen in recent Press Releases, GZ is experiencing huge growth at the moment. But this could reverse just as quickly if users are treated in a contemptuous manner i.e. they will pack up their toys and go to play in someone else's sandpit.

It is funny that you should mention personal attacks because thats one of the best ones I've seen yet. You compared me to Idi Amin, does that not strike you as somewhat hypocritical??

I am anything but hot tempered. Over the last few months the moderating team have suffered endless accusations of being in the pockets of certain companies. None of the moderating team are actually that biased, we do our best to moderate fairly but at times it becomes a bit hard with all the personal attacks coming our way.

I apologise for occasionally losing my temper but I challenge anyone to stay even tempered when accused of being corrupt.

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#57485 10-Jan-2007 15:41

bradstewart: I apologise for occasionally losing my temper but I challenge anyone to stay even tempered when accused of being corrupt.

Son, you need to grow thicker skin... :)

I'm regularly accused of being in Telecom's pay or being rabidly anti-Telecom. That's when I'm not a Microsoft Troll or an Open Source Zealot of course. Or a Mac Fanatic/Windows Luser, paid by both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates with backdated share options and Microsoft's petty cash.

Yoooo....

Juha

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#57492 10-Jan-2007 15:48

What can I say? I'm the sensitive type...

I got accused of sacrificing small animals before a statue of Bill Gates. Top that!

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WorldxChange

#57502 10-Jan-2007 16:46

Just to add my 2 cents and add this from a Telco perspective, the only reason WorldxChange is here and agreed to post on this forum is that I found the Moderators and Staff from Geekzone to be fair , courteous and respectful of people's questions and answers but would not let it degenerate to a flame war. They also allow fair and honest questions to be asked, WorldxChange has been asked fairly hard questions but it has been done in a way that allows users and ourselves to pass questions and answers in such a way that allows us to pass information in a constructive manner, which I must add is rather refreshing when comparing this to other forums, for this reason alone is why we are posting here directly to answer user questions.

People may not always agree with our reasons and that is also fine but I feel at least at Geekzone we can free pass our opinions and have support and opposition without it turning nasty, my hats go off to the Mods here for the job they do.

Regards
Phil Moore
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WorldxChange Communications

Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well

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tonyhughes

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#57505 10-Jan-2007 17:01

Thanks Phil !

bradstewart

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#57522 10-Jan-2007 18:30

Very much appreciated Phil. Good to see another satisfied Geekzoner

Downunder

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#57688 12-Jan-2007 03:29

sorry for my late reply my internet has been bad the last few days and cant stand the slow speeds to be online

Grant17 thanks for your long reply above i tryed to compose the same thing my self and deleated it as i was at a loss of words to some of what was said!

let alone a bunch of trolls. come to mind first and Hot head is no real excuse

well this user is off and wont be back in a hurry as ther is much more plesant places to be than be abused here!

to be truthfull i have got very little out of geekZone my point of view and questions have had poor responce.

guess i'm not a geek and don't understand tech enough so not welcome here.

anyway ive now been told this is a private club and i dont have a say

hmm a very useful forum indeed !!!

hope the mods here enjoy ther private club all alone

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