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#362005 2-Aug-2010 22:47

Lias:
freitasm: Imagine running a restaurant where 40% of the people who came and ate didn't pay. In a way, that's what ad blocking is doing to us. Just like a restaurant, we have to pay to staff, we have to pay for resources, and we have to pay when people consume those resources. The difference, of course, is that our visitors don't pay us directly but indirectly by viewing advertising."

I think of the analogy as being more like a food bank. They are diseemintating information out of the goodness of their hearts, but rely on donations & sponsors to exist., but most of the people consuming their services are not going to be donating.

Difference there is... most people who need and use a foodbank, really have no choice. You can chose where you go on the internet. I am not saying you have to come here, or you have to pay. But I doubt you can say you are on par with those who rely on foodbanks to live. Do you rely on geekzone being add free to live?

friedCrumpet

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#362100 3-Aug-2010 09:10

Adblock (at least my adblock) doesn't block the sponsorship adverts at the bottom of the page. And they are non intrusive and probably worth more in terms of mindshare than any other advertising on this site.

No one has the right to tell me how I should view content with my web browser, and if you think you do and get more intrusive with your anti-ad-blocking techniques then I will just stop coming. The level of discourse on geekzone has somewhat plummeted in the past year so there is little keeping me here in the first place.

Here's a tip, different types of advertising work on different types of people. The competitions and sponsorship advertising make me feel good about those companies, the intrusive flash adverts and do not. So I block them. I'm not ever going to unblock them either. I'm not going to pay for a subscription because I don't gain enough out of the site to warrant it, and the benefits are uninteresting to me.

freitasm

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#362108 3-Aug-2010 09:33

The little ones at the bottom (the footer)? Those are contra deals. We are not being paid for that - basically I got some service from those companies and repay them with those icons. No revenue there.

The competitions? They are free, otherwise those companies wouldn't give anything away. We run the competitions in hope of making a little with advertising - the ones you are blocking.

We still have to pay hosting (which I am told risk getting a price increase when our contract is due) traffic (same), software, salaries and any other costs.

Why people stil think running something like Geekzone is free is beyond me. It is indeed not cheap, and blocking ads really hurts our ability to keep the site going , development, and more.

I am surprised by the number of people saying the site is not for them, when I see an average of four to five visits a day from registered users, with a high number of page views from this same people.

This will be my last post in this matter, seeing I cannot put in more words what I already said. Blocking ads hurts the site. We are not a big publisher. That's all.

Xt1ncT

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#362141 3-Aug-2010 10:11

I've been reading this discussion and the one about subscribing with interest over the last few days, and here are my thoughts.

Any website offering free content is behind the 8-ball right out of the gate. This is something the traditional media outlets are finding - papers like the NZ Herald, Sydney Morning Herald etc are selling less and less papers due to the content being available free online.

To counter the above sites like those mentioned and of course this one need to find a revenue stream to be able to continue operating - that's a given. Really the only thing they can do for this is advertise to the readers/visitors. And by definition ads have to be obtrusive to a certain extent otherwise no-one will see them and if not seen, they are not clicked. No brainer really.

The next part is my thoughts on the threads.

No site can dictate how the user utilises their own software on their own PC/Laptop etc. Some people will use an ad blocker - some won't (I don't by the way - the ads really don't bother me). The problem with these threads and Mauricio's comments in them IMHO is that they sound to me like he's trying to make more money.

Now I know that's not the case, and even if it were why should he apologise - most of us want to make money in some form or another - but by keep commenting on how people should subscribe, and on how they should disable their own ad blockers is kind of desperate. At least it is to my eyes. Instead, the owners and staff of Geekzone should come up with ways to entice more of us to subscribe. Currently I see absolutely no reason to. Sure I visit and use the forums, but if it were to disappear it really wouldn't bother me. So currently there is not any incentive for visitors like me to subscribe.

Be innovative. Be seen to be being innovative as well. Attract more people to the site with offers and *stuff* (I don't know what that stuff should be by the way - just that there needs to be something).

These are just a few thoughts of mine after reading the two threads. Not trying to be critical, just commenting :)

friedCrumpet

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#362162 3-Aug-2010 10:54

freitasm: The little ones at the bottom (the footer)? Those are contra deals. We are not being paid for that - basically I got some service from those companies and repay them with those icons. No revenue there.

The competitions? They are free, otherwise those companies wouldn't give anything away. We run the competitions in hope of making a little with advertising - the ones you are blocking.

If you are getting a service for displaying a logo that is being paid by another name isn't it?

Think a little outside the square. You are making money with advertising on a certain percentage of internet users. The other percent use ad block software, think of another way to monetize them.

freitasm: We still have to pay hosting (which I am told risk getting a price increase when our contract is due) traffic (same), software, salaries and any other costs.

Why people stil think running something like Geekzone is free is beyond me. It is indeed not cheap, and blocking ads really hurts our ability to keep the site going , development, and more.

Putting words in my mouth. I don't think it's free to run the site. But you don't have an automatic right to earn an income. If what you are doing doesn't cut it, then stop doing it. Or think up some other strategies. The sponsored forum for the iphone release was a good one, for example.

freitasm: I am surprised by the number of people saying the site is not for them, when I see an average of four to five visits a day from registered users, with a high number of page views from this same people.

Maybe you should compare individual usage with their statements. You will find for example that my usage has somewhat dropped off in these past months in line exactly with what I said before.

Phaedrus

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#362342 3-Aug-2010 13:39

Hmmm, I've already explained my view on this matter but I rec'd an 'Adblock' email just today.

Adverts make me grumpy, emails in this form make me Really Grumpy

.

So much so I've been looking for the 'delete account' option.

There doesn't seem to be one.

Mauricio, I'd defend your right to run your own site in any way you choose. I'd defend your right to grizzle about things that annoy you or affect you in a way you consider to be detrimental. However I don't consider the email I just rec'd to be quite so defensible.

I see no reason to repeat what I've said before but if those of use that choose to customise our browsers are to be considered freeloaders or something then how about giving us the option to delete our accounts so we never need to darken your door again?

Alternatively there have been a number of suggestions regarding possible changes and/or different revenue opportunities that don't appear to have been taken up. I'm reminded of a University class I took once regarding the phenomenon of something called 'Groupthink'. This fixation on advertising is damaging in my view, it stifles innovation, it pisses people off and I imagine these discussions don't exactly entice advertisers to the site either. I should think that we all wish to support you here, there's no doubt that you've built something up that many could not, and that has a value for a number of people. In its current form GZ people may choose to contribute in ways that don't necessarily include hard cash. I don't think that should necessarily be discouraged. People may also choose to take without contributing (either in cash or kind). Now if you choose to be philanthropic in admitting people to something of value - as you currently do - then I don't believe it behoves the philanthroper well to then whinge about how much it costs them. In other words, and to paraphrase the great bard, you "wound your modesty and make foul the clearness of your deservings" by going on about these things.

Perhaps there's a different model/philosophy in amongst the chaff of these discussions that could work for you and achieve your goals I believe...

P.

chakkaradeep

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#362359 3-Aug-2010 13:57

My personal opinion: You can have ads in your website, but you cannot tell users/anyone to not use adblock. It is out of their personal interest really. If users want to support Geekzone, they will sure realize the need and support Geekzone. Finding out whether a logged in user uses adblock, then sending an email requesting the user to stop using adblock on Geekzone is not good IMHO. [What would happen if NZ Herald or Stuff sends out an email to every user who uses adblock?]

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rscole86

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#362376 3-Aug-2010 14:14

I think some people need to take a step back and breath a little.

No one is forcing you to not use an ad blocker. The email is not 'telling' you to whiteliest geekzone. It's just a notification that you are using one, and geekzone would appreciate it if you could add them to your whitelist.
You can take the wording either way you want. And IMO those who feel they are doing wrong, with quite often jump up and down over spilt milk. Personally I do not feel the email was attacking, forceful or harsh.

Rather than having a go at geekzone/Mauricio why don't people suggest ways for geekzone to do things differently. It's all well and good saying, 'I hate ads, I will not pay for geekzone, but I am happy to use it daily', 'adds are evil' etc etc how about some suggestions on how you might be happy to support geekzone? Would people happily have Tshirts, mugs, pens? I am sure we can think of something.

bcourtney

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#362427 3-Aug-2010 15:18

chakkaradeep: My personal opinion: You can have ads in your website, but you cannot tell users/anyone to not use adblock. It is out of their personal interest really. If users want to support Geekzone, they will sure realize the need and support Geekzone. Finding out whether a logged in user uses adblock, then sending an email requesting the user to stop using adblock on Geekzone is not good IMHO. [What would happen if NZ Herald or Stuff sends out an email to every user who uses adblock?]

There was no request in the email to stop using ad blocking software - simply a suggestion that you would be helping Geekzone if you added the domain to your whitelist.

I don't understand the fuss here. This site is a brilliant single location for information, news, peer assistance etc that is based here in NZ and is relevant to us here in NZ. I use the site ALOT on a daily basis (probably shouldn't browse through it as much as I do!) and would be really disappointed if it got to a point where Mauricio and the team couldn't afford to keep it going due to reduced ad revenue and subscriptions.

I'm a subscriber for the reason that I wanted to support the site and do my little bit to help it stick around. I'm not a fan of ads, but then I'm not completely adverse to them either so don't use any ad-blocking software.

On the other hand, I can completely understand those that do find them irritating and choose to use methods to block them. Just as I can understand those users not willing to subscribe to Geekzone.

Trying to have a go at Mauricio for SUGGESTING you think about adding Geekzone to your adblock whitelist is just ridiculous. Geekzone is a business. As owner of the business, Mauricio has every right to ensure that this business is operating in a profitable manner. I'm certain that some of the methods in which I try to ensure my business remains profitable are also not to everyone's liking, but at the end of the day, it's my livelihood and I will leave no stone unturned in keeping my business afloat.

There were no requirements to add Geekzone to your whitelist. If you are not keen in supporting the site through subscription or allowing ads, then don't. But seriously, other than having a public whine, why is there any need to debate this email in the first place?!

yumcimil

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#362445 3-Aug-2010 15:33

I don't use an adblocker - have had too many bad experiences with browser stability to really care enough. I will, however, say that the number and the type of ads present on the site do contribute to minimising the number of visits I make here. The current blue and yellow Warehouse Stationery ads, are some of the most garish and unpleasant I've seen recently.

caldazar

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#362448 3-Aug-2010 15:38

To be honest, I use Firefox mostly but don't have an adblocker installed. I don't really notice the ads myself....

The only time an advert pisses me off is if I am forced to interact (ie. to close it) - which GZ doesn't have.

ArcticSilver

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#362483 3-Aug-2010 16:10

Ill be blunt and straight to the point on my view, because that's the best feedback in my mind....

Advert blocking:

Be very careful in this area. Although the emails are polite, combined with the forum posts its certainly (intentionally or not) starting to sound like you are placing people who block adverts in the freeloaders pool.

You have to remember that though Geekzone is a service at its core, it has two types of people. Those that ask questions and those that answer them. The problem with this is that the people who answer the questions are doing YOU the service and supporting your site. By pushing them to unblock adverts you may push them away and along with them a lot of your audience.

In the end Geekzone is like a pub for geeks, at the moment its good but by pushing more and more restrictions more people will find another pub.

Subscription:

I don't have one, why? Because i don't see the value in it. In my mind all i would get of any value is no adverts, but since i am so used to having them around it wouldn't make much of a difference either way.

You really need to push other area's, other extra's.

A few idea's:

- A Geekzone application for news/posting etc on today's smart phones.
- A latest post application/widget for desktop users.
- A more advanced email system. Maybe you can sign up to a conversation like a mailing list so you can easily reply via email?

Others:

I know you are doing this already, but maybe pushing the sponsorship front would help a lot more?

Sponsorship for your costs or sponsored events etc....

nzkiwiman

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#362495 3-Aug-2010 16:24

Was that email to all users, all users without a sub, or selected users.
I found the email in my junk box and I don't use adblock, in fact I have never heard of it before the email arrived.

freitasm

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#362523 3-Aug-2010 16:59

I know I said I wasn't going to reply but...

The email was a polite request. There isn't anything about making it a requirement to show ads. I see some people have strong opinions, but also conflicting views, on how content lives on this space. All is being taken in consideration.

For those who wonder, the email was sent to some people, not everyone. It was automatically sent out.

We are not imposing anything on anyone's browser, except for a text reminding the user an ad blocker is in place and, again, requesting to consider placing Geekzone in the whitelist. We can't force anyone to change their browsing habits but asking is not a reason for so many of those irate comments.

The reaction I see here is as strong as someone's would react to some new draconian law, when in fact nothing has changed.

To those who suggested alternatives, we already explored many, including sponsored blogs, sponsored forums, etc. They work well, but obviously there isn't a flow of advertisers wanting 'alternative' marketing paradigms. It should be no surprise that many ad agencies are very traditional and don't grock new stuff (except perhaps 'we should be on Facebook! or We should have a Twitter account!).

I will consider though the reach and cost of future actions - new features, competitions, pizza evenings. Like any business, if the costs of developing or organising something is not balanced by a return then it won't happen.

I also have to say I 'misunderestimated' (bushsim) the community.

Now this was my final post in this thread.

mentalinc

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#362525 3-Aug-2010 17:05

ArcticSilver: The problem with this is that the people who answer the questions are doing YOU the service and supporting your site.

+1
I block ads the moving colours etc bug me. But I put myself into this category. Also as an author of an app that provided Freeview EPG data that I run through this site with thread view stats of Viewed 78647 times, with 316 replies and the replies being over a 12+ month period and the views over the last 26 months or so i have no issues blocking ads.

also a google for freeview nz epg puts geekzone 4th on the list behind the website i hosted the application on providing more users who may provide ad revenue

Also isnt this border line break the advertisings rules about asking people to enable and view adverts?

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