[WXC/VFX] Torrent users - we are on our own

Forums › One NZ (including Farmside) › [WXC/VFX] Torrent users - we are on our own

badassbaz

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#26992 9-Oct-2008 15:49

Well as im kinda new here, well haven't really written anything but have been lurking around reading everyones threads etc for last 6 months this forum made me change to Xnet
I decided to finally write something which may help some people on the torrent plan realise why there speeds are so bad after midnight

I rang Xnet yesterday to complain as just recently (starting from weekend gone) my speed from midnight till 8am went from 350 kps to 30-100kps MAX i explained to him at the speed im on there is no way i can get anywhere near 75gigs a month free quota.

He said " Just recently we put all torrent users in there own pool so they have a certain amount of bandwidth between them. When they all download at the same time (mainly midnight till 8am) they are only gettin a little amount of the bandwidth allocated for torrent plan users"

Which is why during the day we can download at good speeds but during free hours it is going at a snail trail pace.

when asked why .."because other users who are on differnt plans have complained about getting less speed between 12am -8am"

i asked how long was this going to go on for "he didn't know"

My question is will you guys on a torrent plan be able to download your 75 gig quota this month at the speeds you are currently getting?

i dont think i will

And is it a breech of the fair trading act when they say we can download 75gigs per month for FREE when there is no way i can download that much at the speed im currently getting?

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#170197 9-Oct-2008 16:14

My heart bleeds for you.

The paying users had good performance BEFORE Xnet pitched a flawed plan into the market... The company appear to have accepted that and taken some measures to address the problem.

So suck it up and deal with it. You want free traffic? you get what you pay for.

Xnet have taken care of the customers that PAY for ALL their used traffic... I'm afraid it's a fact of life that the flat rate leeches must come second.

If you don't like it, Actrix has a flat rate ADSL account for just $496/month.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

attilathegorilla

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#170200 9-Oct-2008 16:17

I can`t believe that this is true. This would be illegal, there`s no way they could get away with this. Sorry I don`t believe it.

If honest work and justice are not enough - we'll get a lawyer.

Talkiet

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#170202 9-Oct-2008 16:21

What? You don't believe an ISP should be allowed to manage traffic on their network to make sure interactive users can actually browse the Internet after midnight?

The simple fact is that 75GB free is unsustainable usage and that's just been proved... Xnet had to do something and they decided that instead of pandering to the leeches that were losing money for them, they'd cater to the users that paid for their traffic.

You'd do the same in their position. On the offchance you would be so noble as to try and continue supporting it, you'd go out of business.

As I point out above, there is an ISP in NZ with a real flat rate ADSL plan. Just go there and stop complaining.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

attilathegorilla

213 posts

Master Geek

#170203 9-Oct-2008 16:30

{personal insult removed}, listen to me. As a trade-off, torrent plan users pay 50% more for their peak data than the non-torrent users. That is the deal. If Xnet think the torrent plan was a mistake, then discriminating against those users is not the right way to go about things. As it is, I pay 1.5 bucks /GB during the day, when u pay 1 dollar/GB. And I get nothing useful during the night. So who`s getting what they pay for?

I`m certain that this is not true, Xnet would be sued out of business in no time.

{MOD EDIT : SP : Don't resort to personal insults}

If honest work and justice are not enough - we'll get a lawyer.

Talkiet

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#170204 9-Oct-2008 16:39

attilathegorilla: {personal insult removed}, listen to me. As a trade-off, torrent plan users pay 50% more for their peak data than the non-torrent users. That is the deal. If Xnet think the torrent plan was a mistake, then discriminating against those users is not the right way to go about things. As it is, I pay 1.5 bucks /GB during the day, when u pay 1 dollar/GB. And I get nothing useful during the night. So who`s getting what they pay for?

I`m certain that this is not true, Xnet would be sued out of business in no time.

Sir, I _certainly_ know more about the economics of broadband plans in NZ than you. The torrent plan would have worked with a smaller window or with a lower free number of GB. But as it is - it's plainly affecting their network performance.

I don't blame regular end users for not understanding the economics behind the complex problems of broadband plans, data caps and the difficulty (impossibility?) of flat rate plans in NZ, but Xnet had no choice but to restore performance for their most profitable customers - who happened to be their existing userbase.

If you disagree with their new value proposition on the torrent plan, now that they have (I presume) adjusted the bandwidth to an economic level, I am confident you'd be allowed to switch back to the regular $1/GB plan. In fact I predict a bunch of people are going to do this - having found out first hand that (effectively) flat rate plans don't really work for either users or the ISP.

If on the other hand you're going to bleat that Xnet should be compelled to lose money and have to provide VAST amounts more international bandwidth to support the leeches that signed up for the torrent plan, then you'd lose any credibility you may still have.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

euanandrews

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#170205 9-Oct-2008 16:44

Talkiet: My heart bleeds for you.

The paying users had good performance BEFORE Xnet pitched a flawed plan into the market... The company appear to have accepted that and taken some measures to address the problem.

So suck it up and deal with it. You want free traffic? you get what you pay for.

Xnet have taken care of the customers that PAY for ALL their used traffic... I'm afraid it's a fact of life that the flat rate leeches must come second.

If you don't like it, Actrix has a flat rate ADSL account for just $496/month.

Cheers - N

I get annoyed with one-eyed people like you.

The people on xnet's Torrent plan...
- Are paying customers like everyone else
- Signed up for a plan xnet offered

The fact that performance has suffered is not the customers fault, it is the fault of the ISP for offering such a plan, without correctly anticipating the demand and planning and providing the necessary resources.

Your right, there is no such thing as free traffic...and people on this Torrent plan do not get free traffic per-sey...they pay a higher charge per MB during peak hours, so it goes both ways...

If you were to still argue the 75GB, well that is only available during unsociable hours, that nobody else likes using...at least people who signed up to this plan, were in theory, helping to be part of the solution, by not consuming bandwidth during peak hours, which is what the problem always was in the past.

These people who moan about slow speeds during peak hours...what are they doing to help the situation?...are they changing there on-line times to spread the bandwidth load?...I doubt it...they just moan and blame the down-loaders.

'Flat rate leeches'....what a typical uneducated remark.

I will say this...
I have always generally supported xnet, and am still reasonably happy with the Torrent plan, but...
I have noticed speeds have deteriorated dramatically in the last couple weeks...to the point where I am now at times unable to view simple webpages...its that bad.

If these speeds remain, I will change very shortly...and I am on-line allot at these hours.

I did say in the past when this plan first came out, that I worried it would go the same way as Xtra's Go-Large and the Woosh unlimited plan...I wondered if xnet had underestimated the demand and the costs of providing such a plan...and would eventually be forced to change the terms or pull the plug on the plan due to being uneconomic or sapping resources...

Maybe this is coming to be?

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badassbaz

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Geek

#170208 9-Oct-2008 16:50

I totally understand where xnet is coming from and to be honest i couldn't believe the deal they were giving out when it first was released...

BUT they have offered a service and should in my books try and do good by what they say.

If they can't, then dont offer the Torrent plan offer a differnt one that they can afford or can actually go through with.

Anyway who knows if enough Torrent users ring up and complain about the service then we are more likely to have a better outcome for this problem

attilathegorilla

213 posts

Master Geek

#170209 9-Oct-2008 16:51

Oh my goodness... Incredible. Xnet created the torrent plan in order to take users away from the peak times. That is for the benefit of users who play online, watch steaming videos etc. from 8 am to midnight. Humanoids tend to be asleep at midnight. If you are one of the few exceptions, then let me warn you: It`s not good for your health. Sleep is good. If you want torrent users to go back to the regular Fusion plan, then watch this space for more whinging and whining about people`s inability to get decent international speeds in the evenings at peak times.

If honest work and justice are not enough - we'll get a lawyer.

Talkiet

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#170211 9-Oct-2008 16:52

TheBartender:

I get annoyed with one-eyed people like you.
[snipped a bunch]

Sigh, my fault I guess for assuming a large proportion of readers here are rational and wouldn't expect a company to continue losing money on a service that's been over-used.

Anyway, $1.50/GB during the day doesn't even come close to making up for the multiple expenses incurred by the negative effects of the torrent plan.

I'm giving up on this thread. You can all whinge til you're blue in the face - it won't change the fact that if Wxc are losing money and/or profitable users as a result of something they did - they're going to change it.

Personally, I'm very glad they have decided to make the changes that they seem to have done. It CERTAINLY hasn't provided the torrent users with the service they thought they were going to get though.

TANSTAAFL

Over and out.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

Talkiet

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#170212 9-Oct-2008 16:58

attilathegorilla: [snip]If you want torrent users to go back to the regular Fusion plan, then watch this space for more whinging and whining about people`s inability to get decent international speeds in the evenings at peak times.

Bother, I wanted to stop posting in this thread - but this comment ABSOLUTELY requires a response.

Here's my response...

GO FOR IT. Go back on the regular plans and pay $1/GB for your downloads. PLEASE. You know what will happen? That's right, on average, the torrenters that switch back will download a lot less and the network performance overall will improve.

It's very simple economics - but I suspect many complainers here don't get that.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

euanandrews

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#170213 9-Oct-2008 16:58

I should point out, whats most important here...

If xnet have decided this plan is not economic after all, or is consuming too much bandwidth and affecting there overall service...that is fine.

If xnet decide they need to pull this plan...or change or limit the plan...that too is fine.

But what is important, is that they front up and tell their customers this, right from the start, be honest.
I will happily change back to one of their others plans is they advise me they can no longer support the Torrent plan...
I will be happy they were honest and sorted it out from the outset, rather than let it drag on and lie to me, and they will keep my business.

If xnet do what Xtra and Woosh did with their unlimited plans...throttle the service and lie to their customers for months about the reasons for the slow speeds, only to admit months later...then xnet will loose not only customers, but their reputation.

I will be watching my speeds and this space closely.

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#170215 9-Oct-2008 17:00

Talkiet: Sigh, my fault I guess for assuming a large proportion of readers here are rational and wouldn't expect a company to continue losing money on a service that's been over-used.

Well, to tell you the truth... Expect that people would rationalize their downloads because of others is expect too much from human nature - including instant gratification, etc...

Talkiet: Anyway, $1.50/GB during the day doesn't even come close to making up for the multiple expenses incurred by the negative effects of the torrent plan.

I agree. If people want a service with guaranteed speeds then it should be priced accordingly. This is "niche". I posted in my blog about this and reality is operators are correct in creating pools. They are wrong though in creating a pool with artificial scarcity.

The whole thing should be priced to reality so people understand what's going on. Actrix offers an unlimited plan for $496. Well done. I pay $140 for 80GB a month. Others do too. Why? Because it's exactly what was said before: "you get what you pay for".

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#170216 9-Oct-2008 17:01

TheBartender: If xnet do what Xtra and Woosh did with their unlimited plans...throttle the service and lie to their customers for months about the reasons for the slow speeds, only to admit months later...then xnet will loose not only customers, but their reputation.

Correct. They lose a lot more if this is the case.

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euanandrews

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#170217 9-Oct-2008 17:09

Talkiet: Sigh, my fault I guess for assuming a large proportion of readers here are rational and wouldn't expect a company to continue losing money on a service that's been over-used.

As my post pointed out, but you snipped out, I questioned when this Torrent plan first came out if xnet were going to be able to sustain it, or would it go the same way at the Xtra and Woosh unlimited plans.

I completly agreee that a company should not, and will not, have to maintain a service that is losing money (or affecting the quality of their overall service)

That said, I would like xnet, if they have come to that conclusion, to advise people on the Torrent plan, that they can no longer support it...just be honest from the outset.

Changing or limiting a service/plan without letting the plan subscibers know will just lead to complaints and a loss of reputation.

Nothing irrational about that.

attilathegorilla

213 posts

Master Geek

#170219 9-Oct-2008 17:12

Talkiet:
attilathegorilla: [snip]If you want torrent users to go back to the regular Fusion plan, then watch this space for more whinging and whining about people`s inability to get decent international speeds in the evenings at peak times.

Bother, I wanted to stop posting in this thread - but this comment ABSOLUTELY requires a response.

Here's my response...

GO FOR IT. Go back on the regular plans and pay $1/GB for your downloads. PLEASE. You know what will happen? That's right, on average, the torrenters that switch back will download a lot less and the network performance overall will improve.

It's very simple economics - but I suspect many complainers here don't get that.

Cheers - N

I`m on the torrent plan, and I only ever download stuff during the free period. When most humans tend to sleep. Leaving you bandwidth to play and watch videos etc during the day and in evenings. If I go back to 1 dollar/GB, then I will do my downloads and uploads whenever. Very likely taking away bandwidth from u when u wanna watch your videos and play your games at peak times.

If honest work and justice are not enough - we'll get a lawyer.

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