HFC - When will we get better upload speed?

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lchiu7

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#793642 5-Apr-2013 03:11

As long as the cable plans max out at 150GB this whole discussion IMHO is irrelevant. I can't use online backups with this plan and having faster uploads just means I reach the cap faster.

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DonGould

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#793698 5-Apr-2013 09:32

DoomlordVekk: Regretably, thats all not quite true. The DOCSIS3 standard is build on a frequency range of approx 600MHz of downstream spectrum and (if you're lucky), 80MHz of upstream spectrum. That effectively limits the (A) number of channels and (B) bandwidth of channels.

Upstream is the rarest of comodities in the cable world. To increase available upstream channel capacities to customers, you basically have to take your existing fibre nodes(suburbs serviced by a ONT and it's coaxial runs), cut them in half and build 2 new nodes, with all the fibre, coaxial and equipment costs that go with that.

FANTASTIC! This is just the sort of feed back I'm interested in. Again, I'm keen to understand the dynamics of our network. I'm not interested in a mud slinging match of accusations.

DoomlordVekk:
To get Don's 108Mb in the Upstream would mean dedicating 4 entire channels to each customer, maybe with some stat muxing gains, that would let you share those channels amongst 20-30 customers.
Cards for CMTSs that provide ~20 upstream channels are listed on eBay for between US$22,000 and US$91,000! You do the maths...

Actually 108Mb wasn't my figure. My comments were based on what wikipedia publish, which was not written by me.

Ok, doing the math...

$91k / 500 users on a node / 3 years = $5 per user per month.

Well I just dropped my plan by $20 a month, so I guess I half take your point.

I note that no one has stepped up with any comment about what they'd be willing to commit to paying for more upload, so perhaps that $91k would be on me in my street, which is $41k more than just installing my own fibre down the street to meet the 3 networks that run passed the end of the road.

DoomlordVekk:
Likewise the silicon processing engines in the cable modems have bonding/multiplexing limitations that have to be taken into account (how vastly clever a piece of radio technology are you normally able to buy for under US$150?).

If you have a sleepless night or 2 thousand, you could have a read of the CableLabs standards.

DOCSIS3.1 is in the process of being rationalised right now, it looks really interesting and will promise that next step in throughput and technology but it's still 15-18 monthe before we see the first leading and bleeding equipment being released by the likes of Motorola, Arris and Cisco.

Fibre is always going to win over copper, very few countries would be looking to deploy HFC networks vs *PON, given the more greater bandwidths available and far lower cost of maintenance just to pick 2 points out.

Channels bonding is alive and well and delivering excellent results in the Vodafone HFC networks, anyone on cable, with a Warpspeed plan can confirm it themselves with a bit of googling.

Enjoy! :)

Ok, so what additional speeds will our network reasonably deal with?

Clearly it won't do 50mbit, but will it do 20mbit, or is 10mbit as much as we can ever expect out of this 3.0 technology and we just have to wait until 3.1 becomes commerical or UFB runs past the door?

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StevieT

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#794398 6-Apr-2013 20:31

Lets just say that next time I do a 20GB backup to Norton Online Backup, I expect it to be much quicker than the whole thing taking one week, when I upgrade to fibre optic internet.

antoniosk

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#794402 6-Apr-2013 20:52

StevieT: Lets just say that next time I do a 20GB backup to Norton Online Backup, I expect it to be much quicker than the whole thing taking one week, when I upgrade to fibre optic internet.

?

Does a fibre optic link mean that there is no more contention anywhere in the collective NZ ISP sector? local access nodes, backhaul transport to aggregation points, your ISP's infrastructure, their upward connection to the world at large?

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freitasm

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#794418 6-Apr-2013 22:36

StevieT: Lets just say that next time I do a 20GB backup to Norton Online Backup, I expect it to be much quicker than the whole thing taking one week, when I upgrade to fibre optic internet.

You want fast online backup? You should use Crashplan, as they have Australian servers (for the last six months or so). Crashplan backups on TelstraClear cable are fast...

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lchiu7

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#794460 7-Apr-2013 04:17

Plus if you can get a few friends with spare storage and some available internet bandwidth you can backup to their machines.

Get over the high initial load times by swapping drives.

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StevieT

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#794587 7-Apr-2013 13:43

freitasm:
StevieT: Lets just say that next time I do a 20GB backup to Norton Online Backup, I expect it to be much quicker than the whole thing taking one week, when I upgrade to fibre optic internet.

You want fast online backup? You should use Crashplan, as they have Australian servers (for the last six months or so). Crashplan backups on TelstraClear cable are fast...

Will consider, when choosing a new internet security software program when my current Norton subscription expires. Not happy with their support.

What I need, maybe, is two of one of these products http://iosafe.com/. Instead of me going out to buy a safe and have that bolted to the floor. One kept at home, one kept off site.

techo

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#794629 7-Apr-2013 15:34

It may be of interest to see what other Cable Operators offer for their fastest plans:

Time Warner Cable 50/5
Comcast 105/20
Cox 150/20
Starhub 100/10
Telstra Australia 100/unspecified

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StevieT

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#794637 7-Apr-2013 16:03

Alongside speed, I need to factor the amount of data I will upload/potentially download if I require the backup into my usual monthly data usage. 20-22GB alone is a lot to use in additional to my then usual 40GB. TelstraClear were happy to credit my account for the extra 20GB I would use over the 40GB to cover the cost of those additional blocks, so effectively it was free - just as a one off.

Now we have determined, despite doing backups, we use more than 40GB and have gone up to the 60GB plan (I believe a post about a special offer in the old TelstraClear forum made me do that). Even though we are in a 12-month InHome cable/TV/phone plan, I queried that if UFB plans come effective whether we could change data allowances/speed options in that 12 month period, which she said that shouldn't be an issue.

freitasm

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#794705 7-Apr-2013 19:28

StevieT:
freitasm:
StevieT: Lets just say that next time I do a 20GB backup to Norton Online Backup, I expect it to be much quicker than the whole thing taking one week, when I upgrade to fibre optic internet.

You want fast online backup? You should use Crashplan, as they have Australian servers (for the last six months or so). Crashplan backups on TelstraClear cable are fast...

Will consider, when choosing a new internet security software program when my current Norton subscription expires. Not happy with their support.

What I need, maybe, is two of one of these products http://iosafe.com/. Instead of me going out to buy a safe and have that bolted to the floor. One kept at home, one kept off site.

Crashplan is not an "Internet security software" so you can have it at any time even if you have Norton running.

Read my ioSafe review. It's a great device but you still need an offsite option. Taking a device offsite is ok, but you will get tired at some point. Internet-based backups are practicals.

I have three backups: NAS, ioSafe and Crashplan.

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StevieT

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#794736 7-Apr-2013 20:33

Yes, of course it is not an internet option.

Gathering from the information thus far I may invest AUD$7.00 a month on CrashPlan, plus have an ioSafe hard drive to keep offsite (not too much of a hassle as my mum only lives 10 minutes, in decent traffic, drive from where I am (Petone -> Waterloo).

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DonGould

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#794757 7-Apr-2013 21:09

techo: It may be of interest to see what other Cable Operators offer for their fastest plans:

Time Warner Cable 50/5
Comcast 105/20
Cox 150/20
Starhub 100/10
Telstra Australia 100/unspecified

Telstra and Optus are running 100/2 iirc.

Comcast 105/20 and Cox 150/20 - I wonder what technology they're running and how its set up.

I also what impact giving users of the VF network 20 mbits would have? Sure we'd get a much higher PIR, but how much more traffic over all would it drive?

Would be interesting if someone like DV actually talked to his counter parts in those carriers to understand about their experiences.

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