Vodafone plans to introduce local call service using mobile phones that also acts as home phones...

Forums › One New Zealand (including Vodafone, WxC, Farmside) › Vodafone plans to introduce local call service using mobile phones that also acts as home phones...

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#26859 21-Jan-2006 18:20

sbiddle:But how many people actually worry about the speed of their internet? I know us geeks but for your average mum & dad who write a few emails they probably couldn't care less, hence our poor uptake of broadband in NZ in the first place.

I've often wondered about this. So many people seem to be moaning about how slow broadband services in New Zealand are, and IHUG have recently set the cat amongst the pigeons by suggesting that they will offer 15Mbps broadband if local loop unbundling goes ahead.

Personally, I think that Internet users who demand extremely high speeds are a small minority. Personally, I am very dependant on the Internet, but I find Woosh's 500Kbps speed to be quite adequete for my needs. Whilst a bit of extra speed would be nice, I consider pricing and reliability to be far more important.

alasta

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#26860 21-Jan-2006 18:22

This will be interesting to see then (I will be watching the media close on this)

Let's hope that the Commerce Commission enquiry is not biased as a result of Theresa's secret letter which states that that the national superannuation fund is vulnerable to Telecom's share price...

Grantis

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#27525 31-Jan-2006 13:43

More details about Vodafone's Local Calling/Mobile Plan can be found here:

Vodafone Local Calling Details

cokemaster

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#27531 31-Jan-2006 15:36

Read through the proposal and it looks decent.

Bring on the competition I say.

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#27534 31-Jan-2006 17:30

cokemaster: Read through the proposal and it looks decent.

Bring on the competition I say.

It's also very interesting to read the story yesterday in the Dominion Post (probably on stuff as well) in regards to Telecom needing up update the TSO (aka the 'new' Kiwi Share) before their NG network rolls out.

I find Telecom's claim that Vodafone can't offer the service because of the wording that free local calls are only to PSTN connected calls crazy - the actual wording is here:

-----
2 “Local residential voice telephone service” means (subject to clause 3 of
this Schedule) the services set out in clauses 2.1 to 2.5 of this Schedule
provided by Telecom to a Telecom residential customer in accordance
with Telecom’s usual terms and conditions:
2.1 local free-calling for standard calls for voice which are dialled by the
Telecom residential customer to a local number and which:
(a) originate from the demarcation point at the physical premises of
a Telecom residential customer; and
(b) terminate at the demarcation point of other physical premises;
-----

Technically speaking you're breaking the law if you set your phone on divert to a mobile, and somebody else within the same calling area calls your local number. As the call does not pass the demarcation point of your house then technically it's not a free local call. If Telecom are going to bleat at Vodafone then maybe they should be looking at their own network configuration first, there are a large number of instances where their own network configuration does not comply with this yet a call is still classed as local. iTalk also offer a VoIP service that offers free incoming calls to an 09 number yet this would appear to be in breach of the same section as further on it clearly mentions a network interconnection is not regarded as a demarcation point.

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#27539 31-Jan-2006 19:41

sbiddle:I find Telecom's claim that Vodafone can't offer the service because of the wording that free local calls are only to PSTN connected calls crazy - the actual wording is here:

-----
2 “Local residential voice telephone service” means (subject to clause 3 of
this Schedule) the services set out in clauses 2.1 to 2.5 of this Schedule
provided by Telecom to a Telecom residential customer in accordance
with Telecom’s usual terms and conditions:
2.1 local free-calling for standard calls for voice which are dialled by the
Telecom residential customer to a local number and which:
(a) originate from the demarcation point at the physical premises of
a Telecom residential customer; and
(b) terminate at the demarcation point of other physical premises;

The problem that I see here is that, in order for condition 2.1(b) to be met, Vodafone would have to provide an absolute guarantee that their customers would be unable to receive 'local' calls when their mobiles are physically located outside of the boundaries of their property.

I would be surprised if Vodafone currently have the technology to acheive this degree of accuracy with respect to determining the handset's location. They might be able to acheive it if they are able to provide GPS capable handsets but, even then, they would be pushing their luck.

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#27540 31-Jan-2006 19:56

Telecom does have the ability to forward calls to cellphones for a fee which I think is what Vodafone was proposing as an option in their application.

They [Vodafone] probably couldn't lock down the home calling area to just a property, unless they used something like GPS as you suggested. Chances are they'd use the cellsite(s) that cover the general area?

In any case they do try and cover it in their application...

Page 11 of the report
VI 42
.... The best analogy with local service is a DECT phone, where a customer can
make or receive a local call on a portable handset. Telecom refers on their
website to a variety of DECT phones with an operating range of up to 300m
outdoors. The added benefit of Vodafone’s local service is that a customer
can use the handset as a mobile phone as well.

I can certainly see Telecoms point of view in trying to shut this down but at the same time I can see the benefits of customers having more options.

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Grantis

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#27541 31-Jan-2006 20:02

cokemaster: I can certainly see Telecoms point of view in trying to shut this down but at the same time I can see the benefits of customers having more options.

Exactly, I was just about to post an exerpt from the submission, but you bet me to it. Without a doubt Telecom will fight this tooth & nail, as I previously mentioned, hopefully the government will see that the benefits for the customer are greater.

PhilM

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#27543 31-Jan-2006 20:28

The basic idea of this is not at all new though. I recall someone from British Telecom telling me about this type of thing about 15 years ago.

I can't remember what it was called, but the first stage got up & running and was a sort of budget cellphone. You could use your handset within a certain distance of a base station. It appeared around quite a few motorway service stations.

The second stage was going to be that when around "home", it would act as your normal home phone.

The idea didn't take off though.
Anyway, it would be a cool idea if Vodafone address the issue of ADSL, otherwise the whole thing loses some of its gloss. ( I had a quick look through the article but couldn't find any reference).

For Telecom to complain bitterly about such an old idea is quite funny, as would be the idea of Vodafone trying to seel it as a brand new concept.

Having said that, I do like the idea in principle

Phil

[Edit] - I found a reference to the system. It was called "Rabbit":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2175804.stm

riahon

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#27544 31-Jan-2006 20:28

"Technically speaking you're breaking the law if you set your phone on divert to a mobile, and somebody else within the same calling area calls your local number.

Not quite sure what your point is here. All diverted calls are charged to my landline when I divert calls to my mobile. So a local call to my landline is one connection and then my landline rings my mobile so there are 2 connections.

This is how I simply perceive this vodafone plan by giving a mobile a "landline" number for a certain location.

The problem being is that they want Telecom to pay for the diverted calls to the mobile - i think.

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#27547 31-Jan-2006 20:42

riahon: "

This is how I simply perceive this vodafone plan by giving a mobile a "landline" number for a certain location.

The problem being is that they want Telecom to pay for the diverted calls to the mobile - i think.

Correct. It would be appealing for quite a few people who have no reason to have a full landline (unless you are being forced by having ADSL).

As for the Telecom paying bit - here is an quote from their application:

VIII 113

There will be no additional costs for Telecom arising out of the limited
mobility aspects of Vodafone’s local service in the homezone, nor through
the divert option that gives full mobility in receiving calls.

There will be no additional costs for Telecom as compared to calls made
to, or received from, local numbers on any other carrier’s network.

There will be no additional obligations continue to be either terminated or handed over by Telecom in the
“home” LICA or the associated Major LICA.23

Its a big threat to their landline business though - unlike other providers like Telstra who may have to go through telecom to compete... Vodafone can remove the dependence by using their own network.

Oh dear, I sound like a voda fanboy now. I'm not but I like the idea of the local call service.

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#27548 31-Jan-2006 20:46

cokemaster:
Correct. It would be appealing for quite a few people who have no reason to have a full landline (unless you are being forced by having ADSL).

New Zealand needs Naked ADSL, then things will get decidedly more interesting.

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#27549 31-Jan-2006 20:53

....Vodafone’s local service for residential and business customers will include a
range of voice and data products and services. These services would directly
compete with fixed local access, calling and data products of Telecom and
other fixed operators.7 .....

Sounds promising. Who knows, maybe we'll get stripped ADSL....

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riahon

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#27550 31-Jan-2006 20:53

Grantis:.......They can do it, but they simply don't like the idea of Vodafone or any other company encroaching on their income from the landline network.

Of course they could do it but why should they pay for someone elses benefit.

I remember Vodafone paid my first months rental on both mine and my wifes mobile when they totally screwed up (due to the incompentancy of several staff when I tried to explain that my wife is Deaf - she dont need free minutes, just texting) the plans we were on - of course they could do that, but would they give away free rental because they did it for me?

riahon

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#27551 31-Jan-2006 21:01

A friend was telling me of his dad in India who has a landline number, and a handset that looks like a landline - curly cord and all - which he takes around with him everywhere. Basically to me it is a landline that acts like a mobile.
He showed me the Indian website (will have to find out and post link) but the way it was explained to me - he has a landline that he can take with him anywhere. Is that the same thing as Vodafone are proposing - although it sounds different to me.

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