Vodafone New Zealand roaming prices changes

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#92384 25-Oct-2007 12:37

I've pointed it out on Rod's Blog where Paul has responded to my post but IMHO I'd far prefer to see Vodafone NZ adopt a pricing model similair to Vodafone Australia.

http://www.vodafone.com.au/Personal/CoverageRoaming/InternationalRoamingwithVodafoneWorld/VodafoneWorldforPostpay/index.htm

IMHO while this isn't as clear as Traveller with varying incoming rates for all networks it does have the option of cheaper national calls within a country and some destinations are significantly cheaper than NZ. As somebody who has spent thousands over the years roaming I would far prefer to see Vodafone NZ offer the same structure as VF Australia rather than going down path of having "normal" roaming and Traveller.

Vodafone seem to be taking the approach that their customers wanted this so they're offering it. If this is the case then why only selectively impliment products that customers ask for? Nobody seems to want term contracts yet to sign as an On Account customer on Vodafone you have no choice but to sign a term contract. People want to port their numbers to PrePay but you won't let them do that either.

Looking at the stats and looking at where the major roaming destinations are this looks to be nothing more than a money making venture for Vodafone and I'd challenge Paul to provide some of their modelling to indicate whether Vodafone stand to actually reduce or increase their roaming revenue from customers more to Traveller in great numbers.

VFNZPaulBrislen

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#92386 25-Oct-2007 12:43

sbiddle: Looking at the stats and looking at where the major roaming destinations are this looks to be nothing more than a money making venture for Vodafone and I'd challenge Paul to provide some of their modelling to indicate whether Vodafone stand to actually reduce or increase their roaming revenue from customers more to Traveller in great numbers.

I've just sent off a compare/contrast chart to TUANZ to explain it to them - once I hear back from Sarah at TUANZ as to whether I can post it here or not I'll stick something up.

It shows five of our top destinations under the traditional model and under the new model. Hopefully that will help with the understanding.

Cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
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Vodafone

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#92393 25-Oct-2007 13:59

Righto, here are the figures for five of our most popular countries (US, UK, Australia, Canada and China). The left-hand column is the traditional plan, the right-hand column is the new Traveller plan.

Things you'll need to know:
the numbers for the old plan (left) are averaged across the various carriers available in each
country. Roamering customers to Australia, for example, would typically roam on Vodafone
Australia (about 90%) followed by Optus and Telstra. Rather than just pick the
most expensive network (and make the new plan look great by comparison) we've averaged the price based on popularity of that
network.

The new Traveller plan is based on a
home tariff rate taken from the You Choose 60 plan because it's the most popular
plan in the market right now. The Traveller tariff is based on the customer's
own plan so it will vary depending on which scheme they're on - You Choose 200
customers get a better rate but YC60 is the most popular at the moment so we're
using that.

Also you'll notice we've used
12 minutes spread across different call destinations. Eight of those minutes are
to NZ, two to voicemail and two within the country in question. This roughly
mirrors the calling patterns of our existing roamers at present - though of
course the total number of minutes varies from customer to customer. However the
distribution of calls across the different call types is reasonably
accurate.

Finally, to clarify the Zone
3 category on the right-hand side… it includes 36 minutes not 12 - to get the
price for US, Canada and China individually you need to divide that price by three to compare
country to country (I've borrowed this chart from a different presentation)). 12 minutes of calls
to the US, Canada and China equates to
$42.43.

Vodafone Traveller

What does it all mean? Some prices go up, some prices come down, overall the customer should pay less and we achieve what we set out to - an easier-to-understand pricing plan that customers have asked for.

Cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

suthland

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#92395 25-Oct-2007 14:10

PaulBrislen:

Customers CAN opt in or opt out - as I've said. It's not a matter of opting in for TXT versus opting in for Voice - it's all or nothing.

And I think if you look at TXT prices for other network operators roaming overseas you'll find that's pretty standard. I've just had a quick look at some telco sites and Optus charges 75c Australian for TXT when roaming anywhere in the world, BT charges 40p
and Telstra's in the same range but the website's awful and I can't find the figures.

Cheers

Paul

Thanks for your reply Paul but you appear to be missing my points.

I am aware that Customers can opt in or out of the new scheme, my point is that TXT has been changed to a Flat 80 cent under BOTH the "old" scheme & the new "travellers scheme" so there is NO way of staying with the old TXT rates as there is with voice rates.

The second point was that you tried to initially justify the new flat across the board TXT rate (80cents) as "an approximate average of all the old rates", which is rubbish when considered on a weighted average use basis.

Now you are justifying the increase on the basis of what other teleco’s charge and you avoid explaining how Vodafone independently managed to come up with exactly the same rate as Telecom NZ.

I look forward to seeing your compare/contrast charts but wonder, do they analyse SMS usage as well as voice calling or just voice? As the SMS cost will be the same under both models it is the old model prior to the 80cent flat SMS rate that is important.

I think its excellent that you participate in a forum like this which gives us a conduit to Vodafone and appreciate that it must be difficult when you are on the defensive most of the time but answering posts selectively or obliquely does not help the cause.

Regards
Russell

suthland

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#92398 25-Oct-2007 14:22

PaulBrislen: Righto, here are the figures for five of our most popular countries (US, UK, Australia, Canada and China). The left-hand column is the traditional plan, the right-hand column is the new Traveller plan.

Paul - As I suspected in my previous post " no mention of SMS", I have no problem with your new voice rates, I think you have done well, what I object to is the huge increase in your SMS rates for the UK & Australia. I do not see any comparisions for these changes.

Regards
Russell

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#92399 25-Oct-2007 14:26

suthland:
Thanks for your reply Paul but you appear to be missing my points.

I am aware that Customers can opt in or out of the new scheme, my point is that TXT has been changed to a Flat 80 cent under BOTH the "old" scheme & the new "travellers scheme" so there is NO way of staying with the old TXT rates as there is with voice rates.

The second point was that you tried to initially justify the new flat across the board TXT rate (80cents) as "an approximate average of all the old rates", which is rubbish when considered on a weight average use basis.

Now you are justifying the increase on the basis of what other teleco’s charge and you avoid explaining how Vodafone independently managed to come up with exactly the same rate as Telecom NZ.

I look forward to seeing your compare/contrast charts but wonder, do they analyse SMS usage as well as voice calling or just voice? As the SMS cost will be the same under both models it is the old model prior to the 80cent flat SMS rate that is important.

I think its excellent that you participate in a forum like this which gives us a conduit to Vodafone and appreciate that it must be difficult when you are on the defensive most of the time but answering posts selectively or obliquely does not help the cause.

Regards
Russell

Paul said "an approximate average of all the old rates" and you are asking for a "weight average use basis"... i would say these are very different..

And maybe Vodafone used the same process that telecom used to come up with the same rate for the increase???.

i think that Paul has to be on the defensive as people seem to be attacking what he has to say... remember you do have a choice.. you can change to telecom if you choose or just ditch the mobile phone altogether...

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CrispinMullins

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#92402 25-Oct-2007 14:37

rattler: i think that Paul has to be on the defensive as people seem to be attacking what he has to say... remember you do have a choice.. you can change to telecom if you choose or just ditch the mobile phone altogether...

The price of the service I actually use regularly when roaming, namely text messaging, has just gone up. It is not opt-in. I cannot change to Telecom; they do not offer service in the countries where I require service. I cannot ditch the mobile altogether, because my friends, family, and I have come to rely on it; it is an integral part of today's social structure.

In fact, I have no choice but to pay more money for the same service.

(And frankly, any convenience that results from the simplification of the new single rate for SMS while roaming is negated by the fact that I have had to explain the difference between a megabye and a gigabyte to three different Vodafone CSRs in the last week.)

Crispin Mullins
Auckland, New Zealand

sbiddle

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#92420 25-Oct-2007 16:04

Is there any reason why incoming calls and calls to VM weren't factored into that chart Paul? I'm sure that's not truely representative of the average customer who roams to any of those 5 destinations.

How about a chart showing an average roaming user's usage to each of those destinations. Factor in national minutes, minutes to NZ, incoming calls, incoming calls diverted to VM and text message usage. Then prepare a graph showing Traveller vs the old roaming system and let us truely decide whether it represents good value or not. I know USA & Canada pricing is better value than before but for the average customer who roams to Australia they are far worse off now than they were before and doesn't differ if they use the existing roaming plan or Traveller because the price of incoming calls, calls diverted to VM and TXT messages is now greater than before.

Accessing VM while in Australia and roaming on VF is also only charged at 20c flat rate under the existing rates. You yourself acknowledge that 90% of roamers use VF so therefore to list a price of $3.70 on the default roaming plan when 90% of customers are only going to pay 40c for those 2 calls seems a bit rude. The rates to call back to NZ on Telstra or Optus are now horrid, going back many years Telstra used to be cheaper than VF to roam on.

My biggest gripe is that even even if I don't want Traveller my roaming costs are going up for incoming calls and TXT's.

If I quickly look at my last trip to Aussie (can't find all the pages of my bill) I sent around 65 SMS's, had 10 mins of national calls, a couple of minutes of calls back to NZ and around 16 mins of roam forward calls.

Lets look at this under the old scheme

65 sms - It's roughly a 50/50 split between SMS's to Aussie mobiles and NZ

SMS to NZ   32 @ 45c (since I have TXT2000 I only pay the roaming cost)
SMS to Aus 33 @ 62c (45c roaming charge + 17c for a TXT)
Call to Oz   10 @ 70c per minute
Call to NZ    2 @ 43c
Roam Fwd 16 @ 43c

For a grand total of $49.60

Lets look at the new roaming rates

SMS now all a flat 80c (Do SMS surcharges apply or is this now a flat rate incl NZ charges?)

    SMS         65 @ 80c (possibly 97c for some TXT's if the NZ surcharge is still added on top)
   Call to Oz  10 @ 50c per min (average between 55c peak and 45c offpeak)
   Call to NZ    2 @ 1.22 (average between 1.45c peak and 1.00 offpeak)
Roam Fwd 16 @ 1.00

For a grand total of $75.44

And with Traveller to Oz (I am assuming the "usual" rate means that it only costs 43c excl GST to call NZ?)

   SMS         65 @ 80c (possibly 97c for some TXT's if the NZ surcharge is still added on top)
   Call to Oz  10 @ 70c per min (average between 55c peak and 45c offpeak)
   Call to NZ    2 @ 43c
   Roam Fwd 16 @ 1.00

For a grand total of $76.58

That's over a 50% increase in roaming costs to VF NZ's biggest roaming partner whether you look at Traveller or the new standard roaming rates. I didn't realise simplicity = pay more.

suthland

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#92432 25-Oct-2007 17:36

sbiddle:

That's over a 50% increase in roaming costs to VF NZ's biggest roaming partner whether you look at Traveller or the new standard roaming rates. I didn't realise simplicity = pay more.

Excellent Real World Example/Comparison sbiddle, perhaps I was a little hasty in saying I was happy with the voice plan and only upset at the SMS increases.

I think the term "Simplicity" comes from the fact that Vodafone may think their Customers are Simple.

Headline I would love to see :-

Vodafone Increases Roaming Costs to Oz by 50%

VFNZPaulBrislen

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#92440 25-Oct-2007 18:37

But Steve, you're not the "normal" customer by far.

Fully 75% of all minutes made by roaming users are calls home. You clearly don't fit that profile. Those customers that do roam within that profile are better off with the new plan.

Cheers

Paul

Paul Brislen
Head of Corporate Communications
Vodafone

http://forum.vodafone.co.nz

mobygeek

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#92513 26-Oct-2007 11:04

I don't want to pay 80 cents each time I lose my husband in an australian shopping mall... I say, use the phone to call if it's going to be a 'few back and forth' type scenario... Get your friends to text you from NZ, and use the phone for quick calls... Definitely not going to use it just to say LOL for example...

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#92691 27-Oct-2007 19:56

When reading this forum i wanted to clarify something re telecom and make a note to those having a winge about roaming pricing on Vodafone.

Re comments that Telecom have limited roaming to Europe, this certainly has changed. Telecom have roaming now via telecom sim and worldmode phone to more countries than VNZ and pricing in some cases is better. dual cdma gsm phones give more options, i believe up to 150 countries

So there is an alturnative either with a gsm or worldmode dual cdma gsm phone.

Note also Telecom where the first to launch fixed zone pricing, makes sense and gives customers price certainty. Good on Vodafone for following suit and offering this to most of their customers, the $1 per min to recieve is excellent, shame both carriesa re pinging $0.80c for txt messages. Good to see data prices fall soon.

It will be an interesting battle field (roaming that is) especially once Telecom have a GSM network as well as Vodafone.

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#93704 4-Nov-2007 18:30

Now that the dust has settled once and for all, can someone with proper knowledge please clarify for me properly this situation:

The million dollar question:

I am on Motormouth Prepay, roaming on Vodafone Australia network. I am not on Vodafone Traveller

How much does it cost me to send a text message?
a - $0.80 per text

b - $0.20 per text

As far as I understand according to this page and the CSR I spoke to in one of the stores today the correct answer is B

However every answer I have read in this thread has pointed towards A.

Please don't sell me some BS answer to wring more money out of me, I just want the right one please.

TIA

sbiddle

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#93706 4-Nov-2007 18:40

All TXT messages cost 80c each to send no matter what network you're roaming on overseas (with the exception of Cruise Ship networks using Inmarsat connections).

Vodafone still haven't updated their website to reflact these changes that occured on the 1st November but it is clearly pointed out here http://www.vodafone.co.nz/roaming/

allstarnz

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#94018 6-Nov-2007 22:15

thanks, should have read it. A bit annoying when the site contradicts itself during this change over.

still think they're a bunch of thieving gits. In most countries that's still a significant rise. 4x for Australia, even in somewhere like Singapore that's 15c more per text than the most expensive roaming partner. How they can claim that it's no significant rise, i'll never know.

Perhaps the title should have been "We're making it easier for you, in a veiled attempt to jack up our prices."

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