Nz Voip (SIP)

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#646841 27-Jun-2012 09:41

@Techmeister
"Open source rocks!!" yes it does and its a great product, its also very dangerous in a end user environment, I seem to remember you yourself had some issues with getting hacked through this very platform did you not, did it rock then :), how is your basic user or SIP cowboy going to fair when he starts pushing this out to the Ma and Pa's as a cheap alt service ? will you be responsible for the costs as a dealer if you had deployed this same system in a business and they got hacked would you be responsible I as a customer would hold you accountable for an improperly secured system ... , again I harp back to proper deployment models and really knowing what you are doing, because if you don't then all those cheap savings go out the door when you get that large bill for those calls to Afghanistan Mobiles at $5 a minute

SIP Cowboy.... hahahahaha.... A quick google image search of VOIP cowboy brings up an Operations Manager on his weekend activities.....

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#646845 27-Jun-2012 09:49

I work out a lot :)

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coffeebaron

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#646854 27-Jun-2012 10:09

Or am I the "SIP cowboy coffee" drinker?

"What's a typical day like on the Colorado Trail? Tear into plates of French toast, breakfast burritos, and fresh fruit. Sip cowboy coffee and follow three expert guides out on six hours of remote alpine singletrack. Stop to take in highaltitude landscape festooned with wildflowers and question-your-significance views of the San Juan Mountains. Arrive at next campsite"

http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbikecom/featured-stories/colorado-trail

I do like SIPing coffee, and mountain biking, just not sure about the cowboy bit :)

Umm, yea getting a bit off topic now :)

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#646859 27-Jun-2012 10:12

johny99: Anyone know any good SIP suppliers in Nz?, do not want to use an ATA if I can help it

@johny99 how are you getting on with this? Send me an email or PM if you would like some help with some options here.

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DonGould

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#646929 27-Jun-2012 12:13

sbiddle:
Just because a product is open source doesn't automatically make something a better product.

Agreed. It simply means you can fix stuff and don't end up in this mess: http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7173270/Firms-fail-may-hit-Telecoms-XT-network

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#646936 27-Jun-2012 12:32

maverick: yes your right Don !! that's exactly what I'm saying !! but to have that you need to do the work to allow that to happen with the CPE equipment and that's what doesn't seem to be happening, in your case you are learning and deploying on the fly as we see from the time you have been here, your skills and deployment I hope are getting better as you pick up things

Oh ya, I had got deployment to the point where I just plug in the shipped unit into my network and it just goes after I log on and drop in the user and pwd details.

My issue is that it's just way to stupidly complex to get to that point with Cisco gear.

TFTP servers interacting with DHCP to use Option 66 then HTTP to pull updates.

Compare this to the Vodafone DSL wifi ap/router I installed last week which has just as much under the hood but is just shipped with a good preconfiguration for our network in it.

I confess I chased my tail for some time with a double NAT issue simple because the Engenius routers I was using just don't pick up the MTU setting correctly from the PPPoE session I was using and I got royally tripped up by that. My fault for trying to deploy to many different technologies at once.

Ideally the ATA would have easier tools in it to debug the MTU issue. Though I'm not sure what I might like/expect to see in there.

More ideally, the Engenius product world have worked properly and not require manually setting the MTU.

I would be really interested to know how your systems would have picked up that the problem was MTU within my network.

With respect to BYOD, we really need to sort this out in the SIP space properly in New Zealand.

I can BYOD with all sorts of technology, why an ATA should be any different is just a silly suggestion.

With respect to PTC 311, PTC is just bolox from start to finish and it's time we put an end to it!

New Zealand needs to be inline with the whole world and not behaving like a bunch of cowboys by setting our own standards but working with international bodies to ensure that our needs are reflected in the global standards that already exist for things.

This is how it is done in the computing/Internet space.

We don't have an Ethernet standard specifically for New Zealand. You can purchase any wifi device that's produced to the standards, anywhere in the world and it will 'just work' in New Zealand.

The Chorus network and telecommunications in general should be exactly the same or it just results in imposing costs on New Zealanders who still have to attempt to compete in the global market place.

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#646939 27-Jun-2012 12:36

DonGould:
sbiddle:
Just because a product is open source doesn't automatically make something a better product.

Agreed. It simply means you can fix stuff and don't end up in this mess: http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7173270/Firms-fail-may-hit-Telecoms-XT-network

The firm was supposed to put the code in a scrow account. This means even though it's closed source it would still be accessible to Telecom.

The article doesn't explain WHAT is the code, but it seems to be part of their billing/ticketing system. If this is the case it's highly customised to Telecom's own processes. There's not much "open source" code for this kind of stuff around.

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#646941 27-Jun-2012 12:38

DonGould: New Zealand needs to be inline with the whole world and not behaving like a bunch of cowboys by setting our own standards but working with international bodies to ensure that our needs are reflected in the global standards that already exist for things.

And yet you advocate using your own solutions, with complete disregard for standards.

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DonGould

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#646954 27-Jun-2012 12:50

freitasm: And yet you advocate using your own solutions, with complete disregard for standards.

I did?

I think in this instance I advocated using 2Talk in combination with Cisco equipment.

I suggested that we should be moving to an ENUM and peering world, that's not my own solution, it's a bunch of global standards and common internet practice.

I don't recall presenting any solutions of my own at all.

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#646955 27-Jun-2012 12:51

I think you mean PTC 331 which is the SS7 Interconnection standard for carriers connecting into Telecom's IC switches,

jeez Don seriously if these standards weren't in place then voice calling into the PSTN would have all sorts of problems, it also could adversely affect the integrity of the C7 component of the network trust me killing the C7 signalling backbone of the main interconnect switches is not something you would want to do ....

The reason its a subset of the bluebook ISUP standard is that the NEC switches required some subtle difference but is only for NZ local interconnect, no carriers have any issue with complying to this but it takes a lot of work to configure your interconnects to work but there is no difference to it being a native bluebook ISUP Interconnect or a PTC331 subset of this, you still require to configure your network to comply with whatever standard is being used.

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#646958 27-Jun-2012 12:51

freitasm: There's not much "open source" code for this kind of stuff around.

Yip. Working on that problem.

It's why I don't use cPanel for hosting but DTC.

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DonGould

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#646963 27-Jun-2012 12:58

maverick: I think you mean PTC 331 which is the SS7 Interconnection standard for carriers connecting into Telecom's IC switches,

Ok so let's talk about SS7 not PTC.

maverick:
jeez Don seriously if these standards weren't in place then voice calling into the PSTN would have all sorts of problems, it also could adversely affect the integrity of the C7 component of the network trust me killing the C7 signalling backbone of the main interconnect switches is not something you would want to do ....

jeez Mav, I never suggested taking out the standards and just doing stuff adhoc, quite the opposite.

maverick:
The reason its a subset of the bluebook ISUP standard is that the NEC switches required some subtle difference but is only for NZ local interconnect, no carriers have any issue with complying to this but it takes a lot of work to configure your interconnects to work but there is no difference to it being a native bluebook ISUP Interconnect or a PTC331 subset of this, you still require to configure your network to comply with whatever standard is being used.

There we go, I highlighted the 'Cowboy' bit specifically for you.

Thank you for pointing out my point in exact detail.

By not following standards, and using their market size, Telecom/NEC have imposed cost on New Zealanders.

This is exactly the sort of crap that lead to anti-trust law suits in the US against Microsoft.

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techmeister

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#646978 27-Jun-2012 13:14

sbiddle:
techmeister:
DonGould:
techmeister:

Ah.... did not know that, just trying to stick up for Don (the little guy, like me)
It'a all about choice I guess, long live 2talk.

Thanks and +1 for a provider whos platform is build on FLOSS!!!

Open source rocks!!

Just because a product is open source doesn't automatically make something a better product.

I work with a large number of Asterisk deployments and have used the product since 2004 so like to think I know a thing or two about it. Asterisk (and Freeswitch) are great products but it doesn't mean they are carrier grade products - they are both far from it.

I'm not aware of Broadworks having issues such as the Asterisk DNS issue that's now been in existance for the entire life of Asterisk and still isn't resolved.

Never meant that it does make it a better product, it makes it an affordable product.
All software has it's issues, I don't care if it's open or closed.
The DNS issue is a bad one that just does not seem to get fixed.
I use IAX2.
2talk are brave using Open source but good on them, they serve a market.

techmeister

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#646986 27-Jun-2012 13:26

@Techmeister
"Open source rocks!!" yes it does and its a great product, its also very dangerous in a end user environment, I seem to remember you yourself had some issues with getting hacked through this very platform did you not, did it rock then :), how is your basic user or SIP cowboy going to fair when he starts pushing this out to the Ma and Pa's as a cheap alt service ? will you be responsible for the costs as a dealer if you had deployed this same system in a business and they got hacked would you be responsible I as a customer would hold you accountable for an improperly secured system ... , again I harp back to proper deployment models and really knowing what you are doing, because if you don't then all those cheap savings go out the door when you get that large bill for those calls to Afghanistan Mobiles at $5 a minute

Yes I did have an issue ages ago(good memory) The hackers were coming from the PSTN network and exploiting a hole in my IVR on my trixbox server.
2talk could not track them down because no way to do it when from the PSTN network.
You bring up a very valid point about the responsibility of doing your own PBX's for business and it is one of the reasons I have not jumped right in, I have found the pressure is huge just for one cowboy.
However I do take security very seriously and put safe guards in as much as I can but in the end it may not be worth it.

cr250bromo

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#647015 27-Jun-2012 14:14

DonGould: By not following standards, and using their market size, Telecom/NEC have imposed cost on New Zealanders.

It was the New Zealand Post Office (a government department) who started using NEC equipment in the late 1970s - at least 15 years before Telecom NZ even existed as a SOE, let alone being a private company. You will find similar (minor) variations across the world - a legacy from when telephony was run as a monopoly by the government and they often went with a single supplier.

It would impose far more of a cost on the country to throw away working equipment and replace it before the end of it's useful life.

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