The Christmas spirit and America

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SJB

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#293059 25-Dec-2021 08:56

This says all you need to know about the USA.

Police stray bullet kills teen in LA store's dressing room - BBC News

The suspect was also killed but, surprise, surprise, no gun was found.

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#2838269 25-Dec-2021 13:59

I saw that on Flipboard yesterday. So so sad. I can’t fathom why law enforcement would be shooting inside a public area unless they were being shot at.

We love North America but are always wary of our surroundings. Several years ago we had lunch in a Food Court in Prince George, Canada. Several hours later a gun fight broke out over drugs. Ya never know eh?

Take care all and go give your family a hug.

neb

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#2838358 25-Dec-2021 17:20

This says all you need to know about the USA.

Police stray bullet kills teen in LA store's dressing room - BBC News

A line that dates back to a least the 1990s, if not well before then:

"LAPD are your friends. LAPD are also much more heavily armed than you are".

They have a long history of police brutality, I'm not saying this was the case here but they've behaved more like a gang than a police force in the past. In this case though it sounds more like a tragic accident than police bad conduct.

gzt

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#2838365 25-Dec-2021 17:37

neb: They have a long history of police brutality, I'm not saying this was the case here but they've behaved more like a gang than a police force in the past. In this case though it sounds more like a tragic accident than police bad conduct.

Reports indicate LAPD had a large number officers on the scene at the time of the shooting. A caller had reported there may have been shots fired.. Maybe the caller heard some banging from the bar lock the assailant was apparently swinging on the end of a chain. I have an impression LAPD has some general rule like if a caller mentions a gun then you're all justified to shoot free. Not an easy job but there's no question LAPD has some systemic issues. Hopefully the bright light shining on these incidents after pressure from BLM protests is going to have some effect on that.

SJB

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#2838375 25-Dec-2021 17:58

How to get rid of an irritating neighbor if you live in America.

Call the police and report shots fired in his house.

Geektastic

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#2838486 26-Dec-2021 08:55

SJB:

This says all you need to know about the USA.

Police stray bullet kills teen in LA store's dressing room - BBC News

The suspect was also killed but, surprise, surprise, no gun was found.

I really do not think it does. The police have accidentally shot people here too and I doubt anyone would suggest that a story about that "says all you need to know about New Zealand".

America is actually a very nice place, with a lot of very nice people in it. I, for one, get tired of the lazy way it is often referred to on GZ.

Geektastic

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#2838488 26-Dec-2021 08:56

SJB:

How to get rid of an irritating neighbor if you live in America.

Call the police and report shots fired in his house.

That would work here too. Unless they were gang members in a state house, of course.

There are 50 police including the AOS on site at an incident in Auckland as I type this....!

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#2838491 26-Dec-2021 09:04

Geektastic:

I really do not think it does. The police have accidentally shot people here too and I doubt anyone would suggest that a story about that "says all you need to know about New Zealand".

America is actually a very nice place, with a lot of very nice people in it. I, for one, get tired of the lazy way it is often referred to on GZ.

Absolutely agreed. I have spent a fair amount of time in the USA but never lived there. I can't recall ever seeing or having a bad interaction with anyone over there, they drive much more considerately too.

I have seen with my own eyes in the past 12 months 3 lots of total brutality here against youth by police in NZ. Does that make the police bad? No. Are there bad police, absolutely? Here and in the USA. Can it be dangerous there? Totally. 2 nights ago in my suburb people broke into a home and killed someone.

My sister used to have a similar attitude to America and Americans. Then she went there. She has a totally different story to tell now.

SJB

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#2838533 26-Dec-2021 11:24

The violence here cannot be compared to the US. There it is on a completely different level.

NZ 2017 had 35 murders.

USA 2019 had 15,000+

Geektastic

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#2838562 26-Dec-2021 13:24

SJB:
The violence here cannot be compared to the US. There it is on a completely different level.

NZ 2017 had 35 murders.

USA 2019 had 15,000+

Their population is 334 million.

Ours is 5 million.

PolicyGuy

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#2838582 26-Dec-2021 13:52

Geektastic:
SJB:

The violence here cannot be compared to the US. There it is on a completely different level.

NZ 2017 had 35 murders.

USA 2019 had 15,000+

Their population is 334 million.

Ours is 5 million.

Based on our rate, the USA would have around 2,500 (not 15,000) murders per annum.
Based on the USA rate, we'd have about 225 (not 35) murders per annum

As @SJB said, the level of violence in the USA is on a completely different level to NZ

neb

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#2838614 26-Dec-2021 16:37

networkn:
Absolutely agreed. I have spent a fair amount of time in the USA but never lived there. I can't recall ever seeing or having a bad interaction with anyone over there,

That's the thing, you've presumably only interacted with individuals. The US is governed by something a bit like the Law of Conservation of Ninjitsu where the amount of ninjitsu is divided by the number of ninjas present: One ninja is practically unbeatable, a few in a group are average, many ninjas can be defeated by a five-year-old.

It's the same in the US, almost every individual is great to interact with, I've hung out with stereotypical rednecks with, literally, cars up on blocks in their front yard, half a dozen dogs tied up in the back yard, a pet snake, and a shotgun hung over the fireplace with an easter egg basket full of shells below it (the stereotypes exist for a reason), and they were lovely people and fun to hang out with. I'd just have to be very, very careful if there was a large group rather than just the three I hung out with, to keep clear of any topics involving politics, religion, the environment, medicine, sports, guns, crime, other countries, ...

Another thing you really notice when you live in the US for awhile is how utterly divided their society is between, at the risk of sounding slightly marxist but I can't think of any better labels, the bourgeoisie (typically white, well-off people) and the proletariat (typically non-white labourers, gardeners, maintenance people, food workers, bus drivers, etc). The proletariat are more or less invisible to the bourgeoisie, they're politely acknowledged but little more. The bourgeoisie talk in front of them as if they weren't there, and treat them like servants. The proletariat in turn don't interact with the bourgeoisie because it's not done.

As a kiwi I couldn't care less about this and just treated everyone with the same level of bluntness, but it took a long time for the proletariat to realise that it was OK to interact with me socially. For example when I caught the bus into work or back - a mode of transport reserved exclusively for the proletariat, most of my co-workers didn't even know that there were buses - I made a point of turning to the driver and saying "thank you" when I got off, as is the norm here. I thought others might get the hint, but no-one ever did, and no driver ever responded. However, at one point I went away for Christmas for a few weeks and on my first day back as the bus was coming down the hill the driver, a huge black guy who occupied about 1 1/2 driver's seats worth of space, saw me and broke into a huge grin that didn't go away until he stopped to pick me up.

Same with one of the food workers, he was a bit short of change for the bus at one point and none of the other proletariat waiting for the bus had any either so in desperation he turned to me, he barely spoke English so I just offered him a handful of change since I wasn't sure what he needed and let him pick out a nickel or dime or something. After that I was his best friend, a member of the bourgeoisie that actually treated him like a human being rather than an invisible servant.

I've seen more social interaction between different levels of society in Sarth Effrica than I have in the US...

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neb

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#2838617 26-Dec-2021 16:42

PolicyGuy:
As @SJB said, the level of violence in the USA is on a completely different level to NZ

There's a site somewhere that graphs violent crime for high-income countries throughout the OECD (high-income because the OECD also includes countries like Columbia and Mexico which tend to skew the violent-crime stats somewhat). Every country except one is clustered together at the bottom of the graph in an overlapping multicoloured-line mess. The reason for this is that there's a single outlier country whose violent crime levels are so high that, when shown on the same graph, they push everything else down into the noise.

So the level of violence in the US isn't completely different to NZ, it's completely different to the entire (high-income) OECD.

gzt

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#2839684 28-Dec-2021 22:07

It is LAPD policy to release available video and audio 48 hours after an incident.

Warning: disturbing scenes and audio

Dingbatt

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#2839756 29-Dec-2021 07:30

It never ceases to amaze me that every county has its own Sheriff’s/Police Department. Each with its own level of training and all beholding to the local voter to retain their job. But I guess if they had a national police force (excluding agencies like the FBI and ATF) that would be a rather large, and heavily armed, group. A veritable army within their borders and open to abuse by the people at the top of their organisation.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Geektastic

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#2839794 29-Dec-2021 09:11

Dingbatt:
It never ceases to amaze me that every county has its own Sheriff’s/Police Department. Each with its own level of training and all beholding to the local voter to retain their job. But I guess if they had a national police force (excluding agencies like the FBI and ATF) that would be a rather large, and heavily armed, group. A veritable army within their borders and open to abuse by the people at the top of their organisation.

Like the Army? Or the National Guard?😁

I think the elected system makes sense if you live in small town Montana or somewhere. Less so in LA.

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