Greens' Proposed restrictions in Kiwi Saver?

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Awrrr
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#1618670 28-Aug-2016 13:20

Lias:

If we had more domestic oil supply, we'd be less dependent on foreign oil.

Instead of looking for more oil, we might be better off investing in ways of getting by with no oil, since that will be our future anyway. In the meantime, America has become a net exporter again thanks to fracking and the glut in supplies has crashed the price. I don't see a lot of benefit in spending tons of money on adding even more oil to the stockpile.

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vexxxboy

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#1618673 28-Aug-2016 13:28

Rikkitic:

Lias:

If we had more domestic oil supply, we'd be less dependent on foreign oil.

Instead of looking for more oil, we might be better off investing in ways of getting by with no oil, since that will be our future anyway. In the meantime, America has become a net exporter again thanks to fracking and the glut in supplies has crashed the price. I don't see a lot of benefit in spending tons of money on adding even more oil to the stockpile.

you contradicted yourself, you said the future is no oil so how can there be stockpiles.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

BarTender

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#1618678 28-Aug-2016 13:47

vexxxboy:
Rikkitic:

Lias:

If we had more domestic oil supply, we'd be less dependent on foreign oil.

Instead of looking for more oil, we might be better off investing in ways of getting by with no oil, since that will be our future anyway. In the meantime, America has become a net exporter again thanks to fracking and the glut in supplies has crashed the price. I don't see a lot of benefit in spending tons of money on adding even more oil to the stockpile.
you contradicted yourself, you said the future is no oil so how can there be stockpiles.

I read it as does it make sense when the US going full noise on fracking to the point they are an exporter.
Short term you have billion dollar investment to build extraction and processing for something that will ultimately be gone.

There is an odd irony that we export all our locally extracted oil rather than processing it here and import crude oil to be processed at Marsden Point. http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/energy/energy-data-modelling/statistics/oil

If you invested that money it in a long term renewable resource then when the world does run out of oil we aren't as caught out. Would also help to avoid the environmental impact which has already being seen in the US from fracking.

Dynamike

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#1618720 28-Aug-2016 14:56

Here's a fun fact...

The oil reserves beneath the Ross Sea (NZ territory) are estimated to be similar in size to those of Saudi Arabia. But there's currently a moratorium on oil extraction in Antarctica until 2048.

So during the second half of this century, NZ has the potential to become a major oil exporter and an extremely wealthy country.

JimmyH

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#1618721 28-Aug-2016 15:02

tdgeek:

JimmyH:

we now have $100B more debt than we did in 2008, thanks in part to Christchurch and the GFC.

Don't label ChCh thanks

Its been funded by EQC levies over many years. As will Welly when that goes bang, as will the West Coast of the SI when that goes bang, let alone areas near Napier and Edgecumbe.

And whoever posted 100 billion needs to re read what they read. 100 Billion? NZ?

You are attributing a quote to me that isn't actually mine. Bartender said that not me. My response was pointing out that debt couldn't have gone up by $100bn, as gross debt is still well short of $100bn in total.

The Christchurch cost was about $17bn. And that's the Treasury estimate I referenced - which isn't about "labelling" anyone or anywhere, it's just a statemnt of the estimated direct impact on the govt's finances.

JimmyH

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#1618723 28-Aug-2016 15:09

BarTender:

There is an odd irony that we export all our locally extracted oil rather than processing it here and import crude oil to be processed at Marsden Point. http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/energy/energy-data-modelling/statistics/oil

It's neither odd nor ironic. Marsden Point isn't optimised to process the relatively small quantities of crude we produce, and other refineries are. Sending it there and bring crude we can process here is, presumably, cheaper than making a big investment to reconfigure Marsden Point.

Someone who knows about this will have done the appropriate sums.

MikeB4

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#1618726 28-Aug-2016 15:11

Dynamike: Here's a fun fact...

The oil reserves beneath the Ross Sea (NZ territory) are estimated to be similar in size to those of Saudi Arabia. But there's currently a moratorium on oil extraction in Antarctica until 2048.

So during the second half of this century, NZ has the potential to become a major oil exporter and an extremely wealthy country.

I hope that's a no.

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tdgeek

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#1618746 28-Aug-2016 15:51

JimmyH:
tdgeek:

JimmyH:

we now have $100B more debt than we did in 2008, thanks in part to Christchurch and the GFC.

Don't label ChCh thanks

Its been funded by EQC levies over many years. As will Welly when that goes bang, as will the West Coast of the SI when that goes bang, let alone areas near Napier and Edgecumbe.

And whoever posted 100 billion needs to re read what they read. 100 Billion? NZ?

You are attributing a quote to me that isn't actually mine. Bartender said that not me. My response was pointing out that debt couldn't have gone up by $100bn, as gross debt is still well short of $100bn in total.

The Christchurch cost was about $17bn. And that's the Treasury estimate I referenced - which isn't about "labelling" anyone or anywhere, it's just a statemnt of the estimated direct impact on the govt's finances.

Fair point and apologies. Quotes in the forest occasionally mistaken for trees

tdgeek

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#1618747 28-Aug-2016 15:52

MikeB4:
Dynamike: Here's a fun fact...

The oil reserves beneath the Ross Sea (NZ territory) are estimated to be similar in size to those of Saudi Arabia. But there's currently a moratorium on oil extraction in Antarctica until 2048.

So during the second half of this century, NZ has the potential to become a major oil exporter and an extremely wealthy country.

I hope that's a no.

Agree. Be world renown for being 100% renewable

Lias

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#1618805 28-Aug-2016 17:21

Rikkitic:

Or to put it another way, an effective strategy for survival as a little dog is to make yourself so valuable to your bigger neighbours, that no-one wants to stomp on you in the first place because the loss would be greater than the gain.

I believe in "Si vis pacem, para bellum" or "If you want peace, prepare for war". We shouldn't be picking fights, but equally we must be prepared to defend what we have.

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MikeB4

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#1618808 28-Aug-2016 17:31

Are those proposing a stronger defence force prepared to pay more tax to fund it?

tdgeek

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#1618822 28-Aug-2016 18:12

MikeB4:

Are those proposing a stronger defence force prepared to pay more tax to fund it?

No, they are possibly on the have your cake and eat it brigade

BarTender

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#1618836 28-Aug-2016 19:01

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

Are those proposing a stronger defence force prepared to pay more tax to fund it?

No, they are possibly on the have your cake and eat it brigade

Yep.... Cut the public health system including means testing which will totally save money while I suspect not having full private health cover.

shk292

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#1618866 28-Aug-2016 20:42

MikeB4:

Are those proposing a stronger defence force prepared to pay more tax to fund it?

I'd be more than happy to see a 5% reduction in welfare budget to raise defence by 50%

Kyanar

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#1618928 29-Aug-2016 00:44

shk292:

MikeB4:

Are those proposing a stronger defence force prepared to pay more tax to fund it?

I'd be more than happy to see a 5% reduction in welfare budget to raise defence by 50%

I take it you're not a recipient of the paltry welfare system? Unsurprising that you're willing for someone else to lose out but as to raising taxes that would affect you? Nope nope nope.

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