Has anyone else ever used PoLi ???

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#670948 11-Aug-2012 11:19

Looking at their demo, I wouldn't touch it with a 6 kilometre barge pole. Opens online banking in a frame really? Then interacts with your online banking window to fiddle with the forms inside it.

Yeah, nah, that's the dumbest idea I've ever seen.

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#670956 11-Aug-2012 11:36

I've just tried that demo too... I'd use it to get a $240 iPhone :)

manhinli

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#670967 11-Aug-2012 12:16

I've grudgingly had to use it to avoid the stupidly high credit card surcharges (at one time, ~10% of the airfare.)

nickd: I tried with Air NZ but it rejected me because I'm on a mac. At least it pops up a message saying call up the call centre and use your credit card, tell them you've seen this message and they will waive the fee.

I've haven't tried this myself but it has worked for others. However, I believe they were meant to release a cross-platform version a while back... so that 'excuse' might not work for long.

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Kyanar

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#670968 11-Aug-2012 12:19

I can't see them releasing a cross-platform version - that thing's a .NET Framework application (unfortunately they ran it through a code encrypter so I can't see what it's really doing. Does wonders for trustworthyness right?)

manhinli

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#670974 11-Aug-2012 12:31

Kyanar: I can't see them releasing a cross-platform version - that thing's a .NET Framework application (unfortunately they ran it through a code encrypter so I can't see what it's really doing. Does wonders for trustworthyness right?)

Maybe via. Mono? I have no idea.

I don't really get why merchants don't just release details/reference numbers for people to pay with. People have been doing that for decades. Qantas in Australia have a BPay (bill payment) option which opens up a reservation for a limited time for you to pay.

POLi seems to only be a recognised way to automatically handle bill payment transaction details - the actions required to do it still requires user interaction... I'm guessing there's probably some backend stuff which tells the merchant to stop holding out for the transaction (as would be required normally.)

It might as well be some Greasemonkey-like script running on top.

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coffeebaron

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#670984 11-Aug-2012 13:00

I wouldn't use it. The only way I do online banking is going to the back site myself.

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#670990 11-Aug-2012 13:12

Would using Poli not breach the terms with ones bank to not share your banking password with others? Surely the parent iframe could still use javascript to potentially log keystrokes?

I'm on Mac so haven't tried it, but wouldn't go near it anyway and resent the over-the-top card fees airnz charge as an alternative.

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#671051 11-Aug-2012 15:12

RmACK: Would using Poli not breach the terms with ones bank to not share your banking password with others? Surely the parent iframe could still use javascript to potentially log keystrokes?

I'm on Mac so haven't tried it, but wouldn't go near it anyway and resent the over-the-top card fees airnz charge as an alternative.

It's not a frame, it's a custom browser application that embeds your online banking then screws with the HTML document the bank returns to strip out the options PoLi don't want you using. Yes, it absolutely could keylog your login. And because it's a closed source application which they've encrypted, you'd have no way of knowing if it did.

Worse, according to Air NZ's FAQs, POLi does not necessarily have an agreement with your bank, so technically using it is a violation of your bank's terms and conditions.

sleemanj

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#671119 11-Aug-2012 18:39

I have used it from both sides, as customer, and as developer.

It is not something I recommend to my clients.

Unless you are using a fairly recent and up to date version of windows, you are out of luck. When people want to give you money, telling them they can't unless they are using an up to date version of windows... is counter productive!

Add to that the fact that the merchant isn't actually assured of getting the money (some banks allow cancelling direct credits within some hours) anyway so they still need to reconcile their bank accounts to their website systems...

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richms

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#671649 13-Aug-2012 00:26

Ive always wondered what if you gave poli a fake banking site to work with. It would think you paid but really nothing happenef.

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#671660 13-Aug-2012 08:12

PoLi has failed 2 of 3 times I have used it on AirNZ and Jetstar. The transaction went through, but then the airline booking/payment confirmation page never loaded.
I had to wait a week for one lot of tickets to be confirmed.
I also am extremely uncomfortable allowing a 3rd party application access to my internet banking, but it meant avoiding a $24 credit card fee.

Didn't AirNZ used to hold the booking for 24hours until you paid by direct credit using a reference number? I guess that meant alot of seats in limbo.

Perhaps AirNZ should switch to Pago? It's a pretty annoying system (now forced to use it on Powershop), but at least it seems more secure.

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#671814 13-Aug-2012 13:50

manhinli:
I don't really get why merchants don't just release details/reference numbers for people to pay with.

I have implemented POLi for a council client. The reason they did not simply publish/give out their bank details was that typically people are incredibly unreliable at providing correct/any reference information. And it then becomes a major nightmare/cost for them to reconcile all these random payments (often part-payments) to someones rates / dogs / infringements etc.

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#671822 13-Aug-2012 14:00

RedJungle: that typically people are incredibly unreliable at providing correct/any reference information

Very true, and it's the only reason that POLi can be useful - if you are doing a high volume of transactions. If you're not, then it's easy enough to manually work it out.

What is really needed is for the banks to all get together and come up with really simple and standard "payment request" api,

http://thebank.co.nz/request_money?destination=xx-xxxx-xxxxxx-xx&reference=xxxx&amount=xx.xx

redirect the customer to it (after they have chosen which bank they use), the bank then presents all the usual internet banking login, and gives their normal old transfer money form prefilled with the details.

The only reason I can think that banks havn't already done this, is that it might eat into their credit card transactions.

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davidcole

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#671825 13-Aug-2012 14:02

sleemanj:
RedJungle: that typically people are incredibly unreliable at providing correct/any reference information

Very true, and it's the only reason that POLi can be useful - if you are doing a high volume of transactions. If you're not, then it's easy enough to manually work it out.

What is really needed is for the banks to all get together and come up with really simple and standard "payment request" api,

http://thebank.co.nz/request_money?destination=xx-xxxx-xxxxxx-xx&reference=xxxx&amount=xx.xx

redirect the customer to it, the bank then presents all the usual internet banking login, and gives their normal old transfer money form prefilled with the details.

The only reason I can think that banks havn't already done this, is that it might eat into their credit card transactions.

OFX already handles all of this. In NZ only ASB (I think) implement it, and then it's only for statement export. Bu tin reality, OFX (Open Financial Exchange) covers payments exports everything between apps and banks.

http://www.ofx.net/DownloadPage/Downloads.aspx

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sleemanj

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#671827 13-Aug-2012 14:06

davidcole:
OFX already handles all of this. In NZ only ASB (I think) implement it, and then it's only for statement export. Bu tin reality, OFX (Open Financial Exchange) covers payments exports everything between apps and banks.

http://www.ofx.net/DownloadPage/Downloads.aspx

You have the wrong end of the stick.

I'm talking about an automated way for customers, people buying things, to be presented a pre-filled-out form, in their ordinary internet banking, to allow them to transfer money to you ("internet banking payment") with a given set of reference, to your specified account.

For example a link "Click Here To Pay With Yourbank Internet Banking", goes to the customers bank, the customer logs in, and they are presented with their normal type of make payment form but already completed with the details they need to provide.

OFX is about downloading transactions from your account, to your application, or indeed in some cases feeding the other direction. It's not about a customer initiating a payment.

Edit To Add: One other consideration that banks may have, is that people clicking a link to go to their bank during a payment process, might muddy the waters with regards to phishing awareness. But it's still a lot better than the alternative - POLi.

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