The Missing Billions

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#705673 24-Oct-2012 13:19

And if you mean churches without the charity bits (andi in the past it wasn't always easy to tell the difference, but it more now under the new Charities Act) then you'll probably find that most mainstream churches wouldn't make a taxable profit.

richms

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#705708 24-Oct-2012 14:13

if they can seperate telecom they can seperate the useful and the BS parts of churches.

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gzt

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#705715 24-Oct-2012 14:35

The church thing is interesting - but it is completely off topic.

Tax evasion = evading taxes by illegal means.

mattwnz

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#705728 24-Oct-2012 14:57

nakedmolerat: http://www.3news.co.nz/Courts-tougher-on-benefit-fraud-than-tax-dodging--study/tabid/1607/articleID/273541/Default.aspx

Up to $6 billion a year of tax evasion ^

Anywhere between 1 and 6 billion. That is a pretty wide gap. That means it may only be 1 billion. I wonder who is doing their analysis to have such a wide variation.
I am a firm believer in people and companies paying their fair share of tax, to such a point that I don't believe in charities. I think tax should cover all hose things, and if everyone did pay all the tax they should be paying, we wouldn't need charities. I see every cash job that someone does, as taking away money from hospitals and education etc.

mattwnz

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#705737 24-Oct-2012 15:16

gzt:

I am not sure if they also aren't looking at companies that also 'minimise' their tax obligations . Companies like Google hardly pay any tax in NZ, yet many NZ companies pay them for services like adwords.

kiwitrc

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#705738 24-Oct-2012 15:24

mattwnz:
gzt:

I am not sure if they also aren't looking at companies that also 'minimise' their tax obligations . Companies like Google hardly pay any tax in NZ, yet many NZ companies pay them for services like adwords.

Avoidance and evasion and different things, I would hope the academics would know the difference.

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Litespeed

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#705787 24-Oct-2012 16:21

Clamp down on the under-the-table "cashies" from tradesmen for a start.

gundar

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#705804 24-Oct-2012 16:50

Theory:

"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion. " L. Ron Hubbard from a lot of places, but this is from here: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard

gundar

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#705805 24-Oct-2012 16:51

Litespeed: Clamp down on the under-the-table "cashies" from tradesmen for a start.

If this happened, I would have to quit and go on the benefit or you would have to pay 30-50% more for my work so that I can pay more tax.

Still okay with that?

mattwnz

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#705806 24-Oct-2012 16:54

kiwitrc:
mattwnz:
gzt:

I am not sure if they also aren't looking at companies that also 'minimise' their tax obligations . Companies like Google hardly pay any tax in NZ, yet many NZ companies pay them for services like adwords.

Avoidance and evasion and different things, I would hope the academics would know the difference.

Aren't both avoidance and evasion both illegal though, as both mean that you are avoiding/evading paying your fair share of tax. I though it was tax 'minimization' or a simlar word that was legal, which you can do with tools like PIEs, or offsetting expenses against your income.

A lot of tax is lost by people buying and selling houses for a quick profit. Even though you are supposed to pay capital gains tax on the profits if you purchase a house for the intention of doing up and reselling it, I have heard not many people do.

kiwitrc

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#705815 24-Oct-2012 17:16

mattwnz:
kiwitrc:
mattwnz:
gzt:

I am not sure if they also aren't looking at companies that also 'minimise' their tax obligations . Companies like Google hardly pay any tax in NZ, yet many NZ companies pay them for services like adwords.

Avoidance and evasion and different things, I would hope the academics would know the difference.

Aren't both avoidance and evasion both illegal though, as both mean that you are avoiding/evading paying your fair share of tax. I though it was tax 'minimization' or a simlar word that was legal, which you can do with tools like PIEs, or offsetting expenses against your income.

A lot of tax is lost by people buying and selling houses for a quick profit. Even though you are supposed to pay capital gains tax on the profits if you purchase a house for the intention of doing up and reselling it, I have heard not many people do.

You can avoid paying tax tax legally usually via a legal loophole etc. It becomes evasion when you are doing something illegal. I would concur with the previous poster regarding small operators and business doing cash work. I think a lot of small business and one man bands would go under if they paid every dollar they had to. I also think the IRD know this.

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mattwnz

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#705817 24-Oct-2012 17:21

gundar:
Litespeed: Clamp down on the under-the-table "cashies" from tradesmen for a start.

If this happened, I would have to quit and go on the benefit or you would have to pay 30-50% more for my work so that I can pay more tax.

Still okay with that?

That probably shows a flaw with the current system though. If everyone paid more tax, then they could reduce the tax rates anyway. I think that possible zero tax up to a threshold is an idea, and would probably solve that problem for you too, where you wouldn't have to pay any tax until you earned more.

DonGould

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#705822 24-Oct-2012 17:35

I think the biggest one is chasing education loans.

I also think that we should consider student loans for all levels right down to day care.

We spend a fortune educating our kids to then have them head off overseas to make the big dollars and not pay for the education we have paid for.

My parents got a free education, but they were also bonded to work for the government for 5 years after they were trained.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not perfect at all... I headed over seas and didn't pay a dime of my small student load while I was away, came back to a big bill and then hard years paying it back with fines.

However I didn't bring any value back into the country other than some experience over seas.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

mattwnz

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#705828 24-Oct-2012 17:48

DonGould: I think the biggest one is chasing education loans.

The biggest mistake was probably introducing the student loans system in the first place, and it meant that many people left NZ and won't be returning due to the debt and fines. The thing is that the amount people pay for their education is only a small percentage of the actually cost anyway, so they aren't covering costs by having students partly paying anyway. Bonding people to NZ for a period is possibly an idea, but a bit controlling.

Litespeed

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#705862 24-Oct-2012 19:04

gundar:
Litespeed: Clamp down on the under-the-table "cashies" from tradesmen for a start.

If this happened, I would have to quit and go on the benefit or you would have to pay 30-50% more for my work so that I can pay more tax.

Still okay with that?

Yup. At least it would be legit.

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