Do you have to giveway to a bus pulling out

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#733338 17-Dec-2012 07:18

Shock:
mattwnz: Some bus drivers aren't the greatest drivers I have found not follow the road rules . It is just amazing there aren't more crashes than there already are. Although our panel beaters always have a stack of buses to do.

As far as I can tell there is no requirement for buses to obey traffic signals in Wellington. The amount of buses that you see fly through reds or just pull out and fail to give way you would think it was that way.

Dude that sounds like amost every car driver in Christchurch... its getting really bad.

timmmay

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#733346 17-Dec-2012 08:00

Take the license/bus number, report them using the "report a bad driver" function on the NZ Police website. Don't use that for anything serious, but every time you do that the offender gets sent a letter by the police and I imagine it's lodged against their driving record.

For general driver reporting make sure you note down time, location, car color, and car type if possible. Don't write it on your phone while you're driving, you may cause an accident.

old3eyes

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#733356 17-Dec-2012 08:51

Shock:
mattwnz: Some bus drivers aren't the greatest drivers I have found not follow the road rules . It is just amazing there aren't more crashes than there already are. Although our panel beaters always have a stack of buses to do.

As far as I can tell there is no requirement for buses to obey traffic signals in Wellington. The amount of buses that you see fly through reds or just pull out and fail to give way you would think it was that way.

The same applies in Auckland. I suspect that they think they have a special license that allows them to drive like they are on a stock car track weaving thru the traffic lanes to find the quickest one... Traffic lites and Give way signs don't apply to them..

Regards,

Old3eyes

John2010

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#733415 17-Dec-2012 10:21

@qwerty7" ..."he starts indicating then as I start to go past he moves into the road making me move slightly over the centre line."

Sounds like you may have been in one of his blind spots. There are usually ones down the sides of the vehicle (particularly the driver's side) and behind.

There are plenty of warnings about passing buses and trucks in the road code and other driving guidance material because of this. The general guidance is that if you can't see the driver in his mirrors then he can't see you, but even if you can see the driver it still pays to be very careful unless you can see him actually looking at you in his mirrors.

Also, you need to take account of the geometry of his view in the mirrors changing with respect to being able to see along the road beside and behind as he starts pulling out.

I often see cars caught like this and most times it looks like the car driver just didn't understand that the bus or truck driver's view back is restricted.

joff_nz

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#733424 17-Dec-2012 10:31

That's really the buses problem. My car has blind spots too, doesn't mean i just assume they are empty and pull out into traffic.

John2010

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#733427 17-Dec-2012 10:46

joff_nz: That's really the buses problem. My car has blind spots too, doesn't mean i just assume they are empty and pull out into traffic.

I did not suggest that it was not the buses problem at all. But I do suggest that those of us who have more sense than to just take the attitude of "Well it is the buses fault so if I get hit it is his problem" will take account of the difficulties they have and drive defensively.

(EDIT: That said, the road code specifically points out this risk so if one is ever caught out and hit a bus one will certainly be the subject of serious questioning about the actual event and perhaps charged.)

You say you have blind spots in your car - the vast majority of cars have no blind spot that cannot be seen either in the mirrors or by turning ones head. You perhaps do not realise that is quite a different situation to in a bus or a truck.

Anyway, I'll leave you all to your bus driver slanging match which will only remind me how careful one must be of intolerant and non defensively driving car drivers.

TheUngeek

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#733464 17-Dec-2012 12:00

Yeah with blind spots you have to be aware of them and not sit in them. But as a driver you know (or should know) where they are in your vehicle so you make allowances to check them. Not seeing someone in your blind spot is zero defence.
As this bus was stationary, and the OP moving, I don't see how he could have stayed in the blind spot.

As far as Wellington bus drivers go, I firmly believe them to be amongst the worst divers in the country. I really struggle to understand how they are let away with it so much

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dickytim

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#733501 17-Dec-2012 12:44

In Australia it is a legal requirement to let the buses pull out, and as a habit I do let them move out, but within reason, if the bus indicates I will not slam on the brakes to let them in, but I will slow considerably if I can. I have had buses pull out on me causing me to come very close to losing control of my car, I was almost past the bus when it pulled out, I ended up having to accelerate around a corner to avoid being hit, this was in the wet and I skidded around the corner sideways, I didn't appreciate that, nor did my passengers!

I do think that if it was required for us to let busses in that we would see less of this as the bus drivers would feel less obligated to drive stupidly to meet their schedules as more people would let them in.

mattwnz

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#733535 17-Dec-2012 13:12

Gooseybhai:

Dude that sounds like amost every car driver in Christchurch... its getting really bad.

Wellington isn't much better. I think part of the problem are the new giveway rules. I think people have forgotten them now, as many people now aren't following them. I think they need another media blitz with the new rules.

old3eyes

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#733584 17-Dec-2012 13:51

dickytim: In Australia it is a legal requirement to let the buses pull out, and as a habit I do let them move out, but within reason, if the bus indicates I will not slam on the brakes to let them in, but I will slow considerably if I can. I have had buses pull out on me causing me to come very close to losing control of my car, I was almost past the bus when it pulled out, I ended up having to accelerate around a corner to avoid being hit, this was in the wet and I skidded around the corner sideways, I didn't appreciate that, nor did my passengers!

I do think that if it was required for us to let busses in that we would see less of this as the bus drivers would feel less obligated to drive stupidly to meet their schedules as more people would let them in.

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Regards,

Old3eyes

groynk

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#733713 17-Dec-2012 16:33

Naha!

mattwnz

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#733723 17-Dec-2012 16:46

dickytim: In Australia it is a legal requirement to let the buses pull out, and as a habit I do let them move out,.

So do I, and I think it should be law here. Don't know why it isn't infact the law. Bueses are quite dangerous things, and can do a lot of damage.

geek4me

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#733734 17-Dec-2012 17:03

If the bus drivers were consistent it would help. On Fergusson Drive in Upper Hutt I've had bus drivers indicate and immediately pull out when you are right beside them forcing me to move over the centre line. Others wait and don't move out even when you slow to a crawl to let them in.

The law needs to be clear as "courtesy" rules are open to misinterpretation.

Technofreak

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#733749 17-Dec-2012 17:22

I had an occasion recently where I got carved up by a bus and the driver in front of me had to take very dramatic evasive action and move into the next lane as the bus pulled across from the lane to our left into our lane. I had to brake sharply and the car in front was lucky not to end up totally trashed by the bus. We were approaching an intersection to turn right and the bus overtook us on the left to get to the front of the queue so as he could turn left ahead of us.

I took the bus rego and called the bus company and followed up with an email. About two weeks later I heard back from them with the matter being "resolved'. It does pay to bring this sort of action to their attention.

Re the cycle lanes, the footpath is no place for cycle lanes as has been mentioned previously. On the other hand the cycle lanes on the roadway don't always serve their purpose either, as this is where all the detritus like broken glass, loose gravel, empty cans etc seem to end up, stuff that's not all that good for bike tyres.

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gzt

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#733785 17-Dec-2012 18:17

Like a lot of drivers I almost always give way to buses anyway. I have also had aggressive maneuvers performed directly into my lane by bus drivers in a rapid stop or get forced into opposing traffic situation. Not very nice. Most recently going down Symond's St in Auckland approaching the uni library.

My feeling is bus companies pursuing aggressive schedules should be lobbying for a rule change instead of making their drivers feel the pressure and risking the safety of the public.

Here's the Australian bus give way rule - section 77. It applies only to urban buses which display a give way sign on the back of the bus.

There is a members bill before the NZ parliament which is simpler and only requires motorists to give way to buses pulling out from bus stops in 60kmh or less areas. My feeling is more than this is needed because in Auckland at least buses must often cross busy lanes to reach a right turn continuing their route and this is where the biggest issue seems to be. If no one feels like giving way they will never get there hence the default aggressive behavior of some bus drivers.

My preference is a rule which says motorists must give way but does not give an automatic legal right of way to bus drivers - from a legal perspective that idea is probably unworkable and I'm unaware of any countries that have a rule of that nature.

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