Newer automatic transmissions (especially on Toyotas)

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1133 posts

Uber Geek

#874616 9-Aug-2013 15:06

coolcat21:
The problem is when i'm travelling at 40 km/h and above , if i let go of the gas to coast (slight downhill , traffic light approaching etc.) ...the car seems to slow down unnaturally , like how if you let go of the gas in a manual transmission car , it kinda jolts you abit.

And then if I don't do anything and let it just slow down , the rpm eventually goes slight below 1000 ...and then it jumps 250 rpm (rev bounce) ?

Is this normal ?? I checked the t-fluid , it's still red with a candy like smell.

It's done 65,000 KM

It sounds like it is performing normally. When the transmission downshifts, you should see the rev's raise as it drops into a lower gear. How much it rev's will be different from car to car though. My '96 Commodore downshifts very smoothly when i drive, but if i manually select the gears it is a bit harsher.

How is the car to accelerate normally? Are the up-shifts smooth, or harsh?

How much do you know about the service history of the transmission? has it always been done by Toyota service centres, or by owners? The type of fluid used in the trans makes a huge difference. Some models of trans require specific fluid in order to run correctly, and even using the wrong fluid will kill the trans in a few hundred KMs.

You say it is only a few weeks old, can you get the dealer to pay for a check by Toyota? (i say that because i wouldn't trust the dealer to check it correctly/honestly)

With the window, it almost sounds like the window has come loose from the lifter arm of the power window. Can you stop winding the window just before it clunks, and put your hands on either side and see if there is any movement of the window glass? that would be a sure sign of a loose window glass in frame.

coolcat21

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#874636 9-Aug-2013 15:36

jaymz:
coolcat21:
The problem is when i'm travelling at 40 km/h and above , if i let go of the gas to coast (slight downhill , traffic light approaching etc.) ...the car seems to slow down unnaturally , like how if you let go of the gas in a manual transmission car , it kinda jolts you abit.

And then if I don't do anything and let it just slow down , the rpm eventually goes slight below 1000 ...and then it jumps 250 rpm (rev bounce) ?

Is this normal ?? I checked the t-fluid , it's still red with a candy like smell.

It's done 65,000 KM

It sounds like it is performing normally. When the transmission downshifts, you should see the rev's raise as it drops into a lower gear. How much it rev's will be different from car to car though. My '96 Commodore downshifts very smoothly when i drive, but if i manually select the gears it is a bit harsher.

How is the car to accelerate normally? Are the up-shifts smooth, or harsh?

How much do you know about the service history of the transmission? has it always been done by Toyota service centres, or by owners? The type of fluid used in the trans makes a huge difference. Some models of trans require specific fluid in order to run correctly, and even using the wrong fluid will kill the trans in a few hundred KMs.

You say it is only a few weeks old, can you get the dealer to pay for a check by Toyota? (i say that because i wouldn't trust the dealer to check it correctly/honestly)

With the window, it almost sounds like the window has come loose from the lifter arm of the power window. Can you stop winding the window just before it clunks, and put your hands on either side and see if there is any movement of the window glass? that would be a sure sign of a loose window glass in frame.

It accelerates fine. Shift is not as smooth as my 90s corolla. But I really think now it's the fuel-cut off taking effect.

To be honest i'm more concerned about the window, as if the motor, regulator or glass breaks...i'll be thousands out of pocket.
And i am reluctant to go back to the dealer tbh, shady pos.

jaymz

1133 posts

Uber Geek

#874646 9-Aug-2013 16:08

coolcat21:
It accelerates fine. Shift is not as smooth as my 90s corolla. But I really think now it's the fuel-cut off taking effect.
To be honest i'm more concerned about the window, as if the motor, regulator or glass breaks...i'll be thousands out of pocket.
And i am reluctant to go back to the dealer tbh, shady pos.

I suggest you take it in to a mechanic who can check the trans out for you. Marshal Transmissions are pretty good also.

Troubleshooting any car related issues can be tricky over forums like this, but the things i suggested i suggest you check anyway:

Change the transmission fluid for the correct fluid (regardless of that is in there now)

Find out if you can see if there are any ECU/BCM error codes in the system

Can you stop winding the window just before it clunks, and put your hands on either side and see if there is any
movement of the window glass? that would be a sure sign of a loose window glass in frame.

turnin

509 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#874658 9-Aug-2013 16:19

At 40km/h the transmission is by design probably more biased toward waiting for you to accelerate rather than to coast, if it did shift to a lower gear it would have to shift back up upon acceleration. I think also what you are noticing is the final drive ratio of your smaller car being quite low in comparison to say a bigger engined car , when you take your foot off the gas in a Commodore or Falcon the engine almost idles as opposed to engine braking.

If you decelerate suddenly the engine may try to hang on to those revs for longer, compared to if you decelerate slowly and gradually it may change to a lower gear more quickly.
This is typical of a sport mode but limited to the final gear and the final drive ratio. Probably both quite low on your car.
If you are doing 100km/h and take your foot off the gas, how many revs ?

stevenz

2802 posts

Uber Geek

#874660 9-Aug-2013 16:21

If the window is really that bad then take it into the shop, unless it's something pretty major then given that it's a Corolla, one of the best cars in NZ for availability and pricing of parts, it's unlikely to be expensive to fix (sub-$300 unless something major needs to be done at a guess assuming your mechanic is around the usual $70ish per hour price range).

You could probably pick up a complete door from Pick-A-Part and have it painted to match and the lock changed over for sub-$500.

@KnightNZ

coolcat21

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#874725 9-Aug-2013 18:48

turnin: At 40km/h the transmission is by design probably more biased toward waiting for you to accelerate rather than to coast, if it did shift to a lower gear it would have to shift back up upon acceleration. I think also what you are noticing is the final drive ratio of your smaller car being quite low in comparison to say a bigger engined car , when you take your foot off the gas in a Commodore or Falcon the engine almost idles as opposed to engine braking.

If you decelerate suddenly the engine may try to hang on to those revs for longer, compared to if you decelerate slowly and gradually it may change to a lower gear more quickly.
This is typical of a sport mode but limited to the final gear and the final drive ratio. Probably both quite low on your car.
If you are doing 100km/h and take your foot off the gas, how many revs ?

100km/h at 2500rpm.

If i let go ,it'll be fine for 2 sec then you'll notice a sudden drag.

What's funny is that now if from a deadstop i mash on the gas, the car will jerk first then accelerate as normal (just as any car whose gas is mashed from stop).

coolcat21

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#874728 9-Aug-2013 18:53

jaymz:
coolcat21:
It accelerates fine. Shift is not as smooth as my 90s corolla. But I really think now it's the fuel-cut off taking effect.
To be honest i'm more concerned about the window, as if the motor, regulator or glass breaks...i'll be thousands out of pocket.
And i am reluctant to go back to the dealer tbh, shady pos.

I suggest you take it in to a mechanic who can check the trans out for you. Marshal Transmissions are pretty good also.

Troubleshooting any car related issues can be tricky over forums like this, but the things i suggested i suggest you check anyway:

Change the transmission fluid for the correct fluid (regardless of that is in there now)

Find out if you can see if there are any ECU/BCM error codes in the system

Can you stop winding the window just before it clunks, and put your hands on either side and see if there is any
movement of the window glass? that would be a sure sign of a loose window glass in frame.

I just tried the window thing, it didn't have any excessive play, i put my hand on the inner side about halfway (around where it makes the clunk sound) , i tried pushing horizontally....no play , ....but i tried pushing it downwards and it moved abit (normal? )

If i get a garage to change the tranny fluid, is that good even if the car has only travelled 65,000 km out of Japan ?
If I get them to diagnose or get them to test drive the car, they'll prolly charge me like $100 too.

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stevenz

2802 posts

Uber Geek

#874735 9-Aug-2013 19:17

If it's done 65,000Km on the same fluid, then it'd be well overdue for a change.

When I get a car, I replace all the fluids, whether it needs it or not, as well as the spark plugs (they're cheap and last for years generally), and then get a new WOF from a mechanic I trust, even if it had one 2 months previously in case they find something I overlooked. I've honestly never tried draining ATF fluid though, as I've never owned an automatic - they're unnatural.

"It's been regularly serviced" is only likely to be true if they have the paperwork to prove it, otherwise it could be running on 5 year old oil (or worse!)

Check the air filter too, some people never bother. If you tap it on a hard surface and stuff falls out of it, or it's obviously filty, then replace it. Filters are relatively inexpensive and only take a minute to replace.

A basic service from a mechanic is usually sub-$200 including oil and filter in my experience. ATF fluid is even cheaper than oil.

Pop the oil filler cap off the engine too and make sure it looks clean, if it looks like you could dip your chips in it, then you've got potentially major problems.

@KnightNZ

Jaxson

8041 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#874736 9-Aug-2013 19:19

Are you sure it's in it's top drive gear?

The OP issue sounds like it's actually in 3rd, which can happen on the Toyotas if you don't knock the gear lever over in the grove.

coolcat21

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#874740 9-Aug-2013 19:29

Jaxson: Are you sure it's in it's top drive gear?

The OP issue sounds like it's actually in 3rd, which can happen on the Toyotas if you don't knock the gear lever over in the grove.

100kmh at 2500 , i think it's in top gear with o'd on lol.

coolcat21

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#874742 9-Aug-2013 19:33

stevenz: If it's done 65,000Km on the same fluid, then it'd be well overdue for a change.

When I get a car, I replace all the fluids, whether it needs it or not, as well as the spark plugs (they're cheap and last for years generally), and then get a new WOF from a mechanic I trust, even if it had one 2 months previously in case they find something I overlooked. I've honestly never tried draining ATF fluid though, as I've never owned an automatic - they're unnatural.

"It's been regularly serviced" is only likely to be true if they have the paperwork to prove it, otherwise it could be running on 5 year old oil (or worse!)

Check the air filter too, some people never bother. If you tap it on a hard surface and stuff falls out of it, or it's obviously filty, then replace it. Filters are relatively inexpensive and only take a minute to replace.

A basic service from a mechanic is usually sub-$200 including oil and filter in my experience. ATF fluid is even cheaper than oil.

Pop the oil filler cap off the engine too and make sure it looks clean, if it looks like you could dip your chips in it, then you've got potentially major problems.

The problem is, i just got the car a week ago from a dealer. It's been on the lot for about 2 months. And the purchase include "full service".

I never got a chance to ask wtf that ever means.

There's a sticker on the window, but i don't trust them.

The oil when i checked, it looks good but....it was very (very very teeny) slightly above the 'F' mark. ...on flat ground ....so they might've overfilled it ...is that ok ? or do I need to change it ha.

And the tranny fluid, i'm not sure if it's included in the service or not.

Do you change your trans fluid after you bought your car even if they say it's been serviced ?
(for the record i never knew manuals have tranny fluid LOLL)

How often are you supposed to change it on a corolla? I thought 100,000km is magic number.

fk, i never thought buying a 2004 corolla would have this much issue

Oh and just one more info for you guys , mine has the electronic throttle . No throttle cable.

blakamin

4431 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#874769 9-Aug-2013 20:19

My last 2 cars wouldn't go into top gear under 60kph and slowed when releasing throttle like an engine brake. Over 60 they'd roll along until you got under 40 and change down then unless they were in sport mode... I actually use sport mode to slow down descending hills as it changes the shift pattern.
Both are over 20yo BMWs.

In your case, the engine management system and tranny computer is doing what they're supposed to do... In the old days, the auto just worked from revs and stall speed.

"Transmission fluid" in manuals depends on the car... We call autos a transmission, and manuals a gearbox... in the US, everything is a transmission.
Most* manuals use gear oil... which is called manual transmission fluid these days to be "global".

coolcat21

285 posts

Ultimate Geek

#874781 9-Aug-2013 20:33

blakamin: My last 2 cars wouldn't go into top gear under 60kph and slowed when releasing throttle like an engine brake. Over 60 they'd roll along until you got under 40 and change down then unless they were in sport mode... I actually use sport mode to slow down descending hills as it changes the shift pattern.
Both are over 20yo BMWs.

In your case, the engine management system and tranny computer is doing what they're supposed to do... In the old days, the auto just worked from revs and stall speed.

"Transmission fluid" in manuals depends on the car... We call autos a transmission, and manuals a gearbox... in the US, everything is a transmission.
Most* manuals use gear oil... which is called manual transmission fluid these days to be "global".

If i'm not sure the dealer has changed the t-fluid or not, even if currently it's red with candy smell , should i change it anyways ? I'm still justifying $70.

could you elaborate on what you meant by my engine mgmt system is doing what its supposed to do ?

I don't mean grade-logic control though. I already notice that and it's a very nice tech and I like it. If going downhill and i'm coasting, then I press the brake pedal VERY slightly, the trans downshifts and speed is kept steady.

What I"m saying is, past about 40km/h ... if i let go of the gas and let it roll, within 1 or 2 sec you'll feel drag on the car ,...BUT...the trans isn't downshifting...the rpm is actually going down.

stevenz

2802 posts

Uber Geek

#874787 9-Aug-2013 20:40

Lower RPM = better economy at a constant, or near-constant speed. It may be intended functionality.

A "service" can pretty much just mean an oil change, which means about 10 minutes "work" and maybe $30 of oil. Depends how reputable the dealer is.

If the ATF is red and semi-transparent, then it's probably fine. You generally don't need to worry until it's started to go well off-colour.

It's probably fine relative to what you paid for it, which I would hope was well in the sub-$8k region.

65,000 is barely run in for a Corolla engine.

Have you tried going back to the dealer at all? If the car has "faults" straight off the lot then you may well be within your rights to have it repaired "under warranty", but others can probably elaborate on this one.

@KnightNZ

blakamin

4431 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#874789 9-Aug-2013 20:44

coolcat21:

What I"m saying is, past about 40km/h ... if i let go of the gas and let it roll, within 1 or 2 sec you'll feel drag on the car ,...BUT...the trans isn't downshifting...the rpm is actually going down.

Mine does that too.. in old cars it would change up (and you wouldn't feel it) when you lift off throttle until the revs were so low it changed down. Basically yours is in the same gear.. like taking your foot off in a manual. That's what trans computers do these days. Totally intended as shifting more often uses fuel.

And if the fluid is red and doesn't smell burnt, it'll be fine. My BMW e32 has "lifetime" fluid. lol. Changed it in january... It's 20 years old and 257000k.

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