Can a resthome worker open mail addressed to a resident

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#916141 16-Oct-2013 15:33

Dare I ask which rest home this is?

NonprayingMantis

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#916144 16-Oct-2013 15:37

Just my opinion, but I think your letter was a huge unnecessary overreaction. Have you even spoken to the nurse to find out whether they beleive they have persmission or something in the contract that states they do this unless requested not to?

accusing them of trying to look into your mothers finances seem entirely unwarranted.

Wheelbarrow01

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#916146 16-Oct-2013 15:39

Bung:
Wheelbarrow01: my mother - as a fully compos mentis resident

Has your mother explicitly asked them to stop yet? If she still has her wits about her she may not want you jumping in with hobnail boots.

Yes, she asked them, and that is when they said they always do it if they 'think' they might need to know what is in the letter. She called me to ask whether they have the right to do this. I have checked her contract with them and they do not. If there is a medical issue they need to know about then her doctor writes a letter directly to them.

She very much still has her marbles - she is only living there because her mobility is restricted due to advanced osteoporosis. She is 79 but they treat her like she is 109 and tend not to be interested in anything she has to say.

Ragnor

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#916153 16-Oct-2013 15:53

So which resthome is this?

PaulBrislen

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#916187 16-Oct-2013 16:44

I think you need to talk to your mum about moving to somewhere a little less over the top. And I'd be talking to the Human Rights Commission and/or Health and Disabilities about it... they like to hear about such things.

Sounds to me like they're not running a professional ship and the lack of consultation with a resident who is able to do her own thing is quite unacceptable.

Good luck with it.

mattwnz

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#916194 16-Oct-2013 17:07

The electrical testing you refer to seems to be quite standard and done without notice, and annoyed me a bit too, as I checked everything when it went it. They even charge to test a relatively new LCD tv and dvd player, which I can't really see how the cost to test it is justified. Electric blankets, and older heaters maybe that don't conform to current safety standards, but not things like DVD players and tvs, which already conform. Perhaps a free visual check of the cables is all, when they are looking at other appliances. The companies that do the testing are onto a pretty good wicket there. It also still doesn't stop probelms, as I have taken in electrical things, and they potentially could have been unsafe, but they only test things on a cycle. .

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Byrned

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#916223 16-Oct-2013 18:05

I would also believe it is a breech of the privacy act. You may find a quick phone call to the office of the privacy commissioner will let you know.

Dratsab

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#916225 16-Oct-2013 18:32

You're doing a good job looking after your mums' interests Simon - stick to your guns.

As others have said, probably a tad strong/emotive on the email side but that's done now. It'll be interesting to see what their response is!

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#916226 16-Oct-2013 18:34

wellygary:
Wheelbarrow01: Thanks guys,

I just found the relevant passage in the Postal Services Act 1998:

23 Unlawfully opening postal article (1) Every person commits an offence against this Act who wilfully and without reasonable excuse opens or causes to be opened any postal article that is not addressed to that person. (2) Every person who commits an offence against subsection (1) is liable on conviction to imprisonment for not more than 6 months or a fine of not more than $5,000.
As I am power of attorney, and my mother is fully compos mentis (can think for herself) the resthome has no mandate to open her mail. I have now sent a strongly worded letter to remind them of this.

I think the key phrase here is "without reasonable excuse"

Have you looked through the agreement signed when your mother was placed into care, you may find that it refers to accepting the "terms and operating conditions" of the rest home, - and buried in the T&C there may be a "we open mail" clause.......

Not saying its right, just that they may have covered themselves against any potential action...

Even if that clause is in the T&C's it doesn't mean they can, you can't contract out of the law.

NonprayingMantis

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#916227 16-Oct-2013 18:39

gregmcc:
wellygary:
Wheelbarrow01: Thanks guys,

I just found the relevant passage in the Postal Services Act 1998:

23 Unlawfully opening postal article (1) Every person commits an offence against this Act who wilfully and without reasonable excuse opens or causes to be opened any postal article that is not addressed to that person. (2) Every person who commits an offence against subsection (1) is liable on conviction to imprisonment for not more than 6 months or a fine of not more than $5,000.
As I am power of attorney, and my mother is fully compos mentis (can think for herself) the resthome has no mandate to open her mail. I have now sent a strongly worded letter to remind them of this.

I think the key phrase here is "without reasonable excuse"

Have you looked through the agreement signed when your mother was placed into care, you may find that it refers to accepting the "terms and operating conditions" of the rest home, - and buried in the T&C there may be a "we open mail" clause.......

Not saying its right, just that they may have covered themselves against any potential action...

Even if that clause is in the T&C's it doesn't mean they can, you can't contract out of the law.

Of course you can, in this kind if situation.
Ie. if they get a contract that states they are allowed to open mail on behalf of their residents then of course they can do it.

To suggest otherwise means that I cannot give permission for anybody to open my mail.
So if, for example, I go overseas for a while it is illegal for my wife, even with my permission, to open mail even if I specifically request that she do it. Clearly that is not the case, (or my wife should be in prison right now) so clearly it must be legal to open someone's mail wit heir permission.

gregmcc

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#916228 16-Oct-2013 18:40

Wheelbarrow01: This is just the latest in a string of incidences that have occurred since she moved in, so I guess you could say my tone reflects the contempt I feel for this organisation.

Things like "Oh you can't eat fish? Sorry, we don't have anything else to give you so you can just have a plate of mash for dinner", especially when fish seems to be on the menu at least 5 or 6 meals a week.

A 'maintenance man' walking into her room unannounced at 10pm while she was sleeping, and then scaring the sh*t out of her when he woke her as he banged about the room. I am still waiting for an explanation on that one. Who needs to do maintenance at that time of night?

A 'test & tag' man coming to ensure all her electrical items were safe without notice, then her receiving a $120 bill for it. I understand the need to test everything, but a warning about being charged for it might have been courteous.

They can't do that, who owns the items? if the rest home owns the items then they pay the bill, if your mother owns them and didn't request the test and tag then she does not have to pay. BTW there is no requirment for domestic/personal use electrical items to be tested and tagged.

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gregmcc

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#916231 16-Oct-2013 18:42

NonprayingMantis:
gregmcc:
wellygary:
Wheelbarrow01: Thanks guys,

I just found the relevant passage in the Postal Services Act 1998:

23 Unlawfully opening postal article (1) Every person commits an offence against this Act who wilfully and without reasonable excuse opens or causes to be opened any postal article that is not addressed to that person. (2) Every person who commits an offence against subsection (1) is liable on conviction to imprisonment for not more than 6 months or a fine of not more than $5,000.
As I am power of attorney, and my mother is fully compos mentis (can think for herself) the resthome has no mandate to open her mail. I have now sent a strongly worded letter to remind them of this.

I think the key phrase here is "without reasonable excuse"

Have you looked through the agreement signed when your mother was placed into care, you may find that it refers to accepting the "terms and operating conditions" of the rest home, - and buried in the T&C there may be a "we open mail" clause.......

Not saying its right, just that they may have covered themselves against any potential action...

Even if that clause is in the T&C's it doesn't mean they can, you can't contract out of the law.

Of course you can, in this kind if situation.
Ie. if they get a contract that states they are allowed to open mail on behalf of their residents then of course they can do it.

and what about if the contract also said that she must give up her first born to a firery death in a volcano - would that be enforcable? even through it is clearly illegal, just like opening postal mail

NonprayingMantis

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#916232 16-Oct-2013 18:44

gregmcc:
NonprayingMantis:
gregmcc:
wellygary:
Wheelbarrow01: Thanks guys,

I just found the relevant passage in the Postal Services Act 1998:

23 Unlawfully opening postal article (1) Every person commits an offence against this Act who wilfully and without reasonable excuse opens or causes to be opened any postal article that is not addressed to that person. (2) Every person who commits an offence against subsection (1) is liable on conviction to imprisonment for not more than 6 months or a fine of not more than $5,000.
As I am power of attorney, and my mother is fully compos mentis (can think for herself) the resthome has no mandate to open her mail. I have now sent a strongly worded letter to remind them of this.

I think the key phrase here is "without reasonable excuse"

Have you looked through the agreement signed when your mother was placed into care, you may find that it refers to accepting the "terms and operating conditions" of the rest home, - and buried in the T&C there may be a "we open mail" clause.......

Not saying its right, just that they may have covered themselves against any potential action...

Even if that clause is in the T&C's it doesn't mean they can, you can't contract out of the law.

Of course you can, in this kind if situation.
Ie. if they get a contract that states they are allowed to open mail on behalf of their residents then of course they can do it.

and what about if the contract also said that she must give up her first born to a firery death in a volcano - would that be enforcable? even through it is clearly illegal, just like opening postal mail

The two things are not remotely comparable.

Are you suggesting that every time my wife opens mail addressed to me then she is committing a crime punishable by up to 6 months in prison. even though I have given her full permission to do so?

gregmcc

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#916263 16-Oct-2013 18:48

NonprayingMantis:
gregmcc:
NonprayingMantis:
gregmcc:
wellygary:
Wheelbarrow01: Thanks guys,

I just found the relevant passage in the Postal Services Act 1998:

23 Unlawfully opening postal article (1) Every person commits an offence against this Act who wilfully and without reasonable excuse opens or causes to be opened any postal article that is not addressed to that person. (2) Every person who commits an offence against subsection (1) is liable on conviction to imprisonment for not more than 6 months or a fine of not more than $5,000.
As I am power of attorney, and my mother is fully compos mentis (can think for herself) the resthome has no mandate to open her mail. I have now sent a strongly worded letter to remind them of this.

I think the key phrase here is "without reasonable excuse"

Have you looked through the agreement signed when your mother was placed into care, you may find that it refers to accepting the "terms and operating conditions" of the rest home, - and buried in the T&C there may be a "we open mail" clause.......

Not saying its right, just that they may have covered themselves against any potential action...

Even if that clause is in the T&C's it doesn't mean they can, you can't contract out of the law.

Of course you can, in this kind if situation.
Ie. if they get a contract that states they are allowed to open mail on behalf of their residents then of course they can do it.

and what about if the contract also said that she must give up her first born to a firery death in a volcano - would that be enforcable? even through it is clearly illegal, just like opening postal mail

The two things are not remotely comparable.

Are you suggesting that every time my wife opens mail addressed to me then she is committing a crime punishable by up to 6 months in prison. even though I have given her full permission to do so?

1) the people at the rest home are not in any way related to the mother in the rest home, but you are related to your wife
2) they do not have permission, you wife does have explicit permission from you - do you intend to proscute your wife for opening your mail?
3) no person/company/govt dept is legally allowed to contract out of the law

NonprayingMantis

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#916269 16-Oct-2013 19:15

gregmcc:
NonprayingMantis:
gregmcc:
NonprayingMantis:
gregmcc:
wellygary:
Wheelbarrow01: Thanks guys,

I just found the relevant passage in the Postal Services Act 1998:

23 Unlawfully opening postal article (1) Every person commits an offence against this Act who wilfully and without reasonable excuse opens or causes to be opened any postal article that is not addressed to that person. (2) Every person who commits an offence against subsection (1) is liable on conviction to imprisonment for not more than 6 months or a fine of not more than $5,000.
As I am power of attorney, and my mother is fully compos mentis (can think for herself) the resthome has no mandate to open her mail. I have now sent a strongly worded letter to remind them of this.

I think the key phrase here is "without reasonable excuse"

Have you looked through the agreement signed when your mother was placed into care, you may find that it refers to accepting the "terms and operating conditions" of the rest home, - and buried in the T&C there may be a "we open mail" clause.......

Not saying its right, just that they may have covered themselves against any potential action...

Even if that clause is in the T&C's it doesn't mean they can, you can't contract out of the law.

Of course you can, in this kind if situation.
Ie. if they get a contract that states they are allowed to open mail on behalf of their residents then of course they can do it.

and what about if the contract also said that she must give up her first born to a firery death in a volcano - would that be enforcable? even through it is clearly illegal, just like opening postal mail

The two things are not remotely comparable.

Are you suggesting that every time my wife opens mail addressed to me then she is committing a crime punishable by up to 6 months in prison. even though I have given her full permission to do so?

1) the people at the rest home are not in any way related to the mother in the rest home, but you are related to your wife
2) they do not have permission, you wife does have explicit permission from you - do you intend to proscute your wife for opening your mail?
3) no person/company/govt dept is legally allowed to contract out of the law

Re 1 clearly we are discussing generally, and I am using my wife as an example. Does the law state an exception for relatives? What about if I ask my neighbour to open my mail whilst I am away, is he breaking the law?

Re 2 we know that now, but your claim was not whether they had permission or not, but rather that it was impossible to legally be given permission, which is the point I am disagreeing with

You are saying it is not possible to have an agreement (a contract) where I grant permission for somebody else to open my mail. That seems ludicrous.

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