Do you have to provide police with password?

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#1059553 5-Jun-2014 08:54

sbiddle: All SMS messages in NZ are stored at the request of the NZ Police anyway. All that is required is a warrant to access them.

It amazes me even after the number of court cases lately involving incriminating messages that criminals are still dumb enough to use them as a method of communication!

hmmm.. i wonder if that includes Apples proprietary "end to end encrypted" iMessage... criminals all move to 'luxury' iphones to avoid cops? LOL!

Fred99

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#1059564 5-Jun-2014 09:09

TimA:
KiwiNZ: Hmmmm, these threads. Why ask for legal advice on a tech forum?

Dunno.
So we can guess at it.

My logic would depict without a search warrant they cant do anything. That would probably have to be issued by a court.

Would a police officer be able to demand the access to a key coded door?

If they had reasonable cause to suspect that behind the door was evidence related to trade in illegal drugs, then they can break down the door to search without a warrant.
As they have apparently already arrested the OP in possession of drugs for supply (confessed), then they have that reasonable cause and I doubt they need a warrant to search his cellphone.
Of course the OP wouldn't have done anything so silly as to have saved messages from his suppliers or customers, or even sent any messages which might be able to be retrieved from the phone service providers records...
Sure, the OP claims to have only traded in an "ounce or two of dope", probably not a big deal to police at all.
But they will be interested to find a record of who he was dealing with, and to widen their net. That's what they do. It's no secret - then they typically pounce in a "sting" operation, and go busting down doors all over town to see what they can find. Almost inevitably, they seem to find some very unsavoury characters involved in the drug distribution business. Those unsavoury characters probably don't like to think that they've been "narked" on. You see this kind of thing on TV drama. So it's easy to dismiss it as just drama - wouldn't happen here. But when the police do their stings, as well as arresting a handful of petty drug dealers and a few customers, they very frequently find stashes of money, firearms etc. just like at the movies or on TV. But they don't catch the real bad guys very often - they're too smart.
So while it may seem to be petty for the police to want to take such interest in the OP's phone - it isn't - and they will want to extract as much information as they can.

gehenna

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#1059566 5-Jun-2014 09:11

Even if they were within their rights to ask, I wouldn't provide any of my passwords to anyone.

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#1059572 5-Jun-2014 09:21

Back to the OP's question... Please consult with your retained lawyer. From your previous posts I'd say you need one ASAP.

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#1059573 5-Jun-2014 09:22

nigelj:
(Side note, writing this, I do recall overhearing an interesting dialogue ~5 months back between a suspect (just released out of the cells) and a cop at Henderson while in their Reception (I was after a form, nothing bad ;)), the cops had done the guy for breaking into a car, and taken the guy's phone, but wouldn't release it back to him until (and rough quotes) "we've had the techies break the lock code and look at your texts" (i.e. 'we want to see if you were stupid enough to document your crime on your phone'), certainly didn't seem to sit right with me, it certainly seems the cops have more powers than they used to when it comes to accessing technical data without a warrant, because surely if the guy consented, he would've given them his unlock code...)

I'm a wee bit confused by your point. The Police apparently already have the phone as evidence, and it sounds like the guy had been charged. They don't need a warrant to get the phone. The texts on the phone are no different than documents in a briefcase. I doubt you'd find it odd if the police opened a briefcase to read someone's physical address book in the same situation. There's no magical "technical data" construct that is different in law.

Perhaps the salient point here is that everyone has the right not to incriminate themselves and to legal representation.

MikeAqua

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#1059624 5-Jun-2014 10:12

1) Get a freakin lawyer already
2) Don't give the police any password at all until you have consulted said freakin lawyer.

Mike

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#1059651 5-Jun-2014 10:35

I suggest you use the time honoured National MP defense - memory. John Banks could give a few pointers also. Its so hard to remember these numbers. Interested that in the Pitorius trial in South Africa he claimed he could not remember his unlock code and police seem to have just accepted this. As I understand it in a case like that Apple will unlock phone. Failing that there are ways that can bypass the unlock code surely any major police force would have access to such technology?

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bigal_nz

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#1059669 5-Jun-2014 10:44

Section 130 of the Search and Surveillance Act:

http://legislation.co.nz/act/public/2012/0024/latest/DLM4355803.html?search=sw_096be8ed80e11337_access_25_se&p=1

You do have to provide passwords.

ronw

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#1059680 5-Jun-2014 10:53

Well yes but it does say that you are not required to provide information if it may incriminate yourself. Which is a pretty basic part of Common Law. However bad memory seems to be so much easier. Heck most people have to remember zillions of passwords.

bigal_nz: Section 130 of the Search and Surveillance Act:

http://legislation.co.nz/act/public/2012/0024/latest/DLM4355803.html?search=sw_096be8ed80e11337_access_25_se&p=1

You do have to provide passwords.

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#1059692 5-Jun-2014 11:11

ronw: Well yes but it does say that you are not required to provide information if it may incriminate yourself. Which is a pretty basic part of Common Law. However bad memory seems to be so much easier. Heck most people have to remember zillions of passwords.

bigal_nz: Section 130 of the Search and Surveillance Act:

http://legislation.co.nz/act/public/2012/0024/latest/DLM4355803.html?search=sw_096be8ed80e11337_access_25_se&p=1

You do have to provide passwords.

Read subsection 3! Duh.

MikeAqua

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#1059709 5-Jun-2014 11:40

That act also appears to require the person undertaking the search to identify themselves and to give notice of the intention to search and justification for searching. A lawyer would be able to help.

If you claim to have forgotten the password, then you might run the risk of having to convince a judge that you really had forgotten it. A lawyer would be able to help.

OP: In the future you should strongly consider not breaking the law.

Mike

ronw

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#1059713 5-Jun-2014 12:03

The're is the rub. What is perfectly legal one day can suddenly be declared illegal at the whim of those in power.

MikeAqua: In the future you should strongly consider not breaking the law.

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#1059714 5-Jun-2014 12:07

ronw: The're is the rub. What is perfectly legal one day can suddenly be declared illegal at the whim of those in power.

MikeAqua: In the future you should strongly consider not breaking the law.

It takes a rather long time to change the law.

MikeB4

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#1059718 5-Jun-2014 12:17

ronw: The're is the rub. What is perfectly legal one day can suddenly be declared illegal at the whim of those in power.

MikeAqua: In the future you should strongly consider not breaking the law.

That is irrelevant, if something is legal today but is made illegal next year one cannot be charged with an offense retrospectively. One simply should obey the law as it exists today and the police will not bother you.

MikeAqua

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#1059752 5-Jun-2014 12:46

By the future I meant "from now on". I wasn't referring to anything requiring time travel.

Mike

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