Advice regarding dealing with crash caused by a potentially uninsured 3rd party.

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#1073832 25-Jun-2014 02:21

I had an uninsured driver hit me a few years back (she ran through a give way and slammed into the side). She caused about 1.4K damage I think? Most of that was to do with the bumper cracking and the light needing replacing.

She wasn't happy. Tried to get me to take my car to a panel beater that a family member of hers owned. Not gonna happen. Our insurer (Vero as well) paid for all my repairs right away and a loan car while it was being fixed, and no excess charged to me because she admitted fault to them over the phone.

It ended up in front of the disputes tribunal. I had to attend as I was the driver but 2 people from Vero also attended to justify the claims and stuff.

It ruled in our favour, and they discussed how much she would be paying each week ($15-30 a week IIRC?) until the whole amount was paid in full. Simple and done within half an hour or so. Quite painless.

If you can get a few quotes together for the work to show the true cost of repairs to the damage caused (only claim for the damage caused by that crash because they'll scrutinise everything, so you need to be able to back your claims up). I don't see why you can't win :) Good luck with whatever option you pick!

rugrat

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#1073834 25-Jun-2014 04:52

I had a driver go through a red light, hit van which rolled, nicked my motorbike which went over and was a write off.

The driver was uninsured and had no money, so my insurance company expected me to pay the excess even though a police report said the other car was at fault.

The bike was insured $500, excess $100.

They market valued it at $350, and were only going to give me $250. Rightly or wrongly I blew my top and told them if I don't recieve a check for $350 I'll be back.

I got $350 check in mail two days later, guess they didn't want hassle arguing with me.

If it's insured at market value, it's probably the max you can get for it, even though cost more to buy car in just as good condition. Once got it saussed I recommand you go for agreed value in future, then you know exactly what you're covered for. If disagree with their valuation can get someone else to value car (I paid a dealer $40) and put it in writing and then they up the value insured for.

Hopefully you don't go through the excess arguement that I had with my insurance company.

sir1963

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#1073854 25-Jun-2014 07:36

Sounddude:
Chaitanya:
Hopefully this topic doesn't go off topic. My main quest is to understand how to deal with potential uninsured 3rd party.

Small claims court is probably the only way.

Uninsured drivers is why insurance premiums are so high in this country.

Bring on compulsary insurance IMO!

Insurance can be even higher in countries with compulsory insurance, they know you MUST buy.

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#1073860 25-Jun-2014 07:46

sdav: Get more panel beater quotes (2 more) and another valuation.

Quotes can take a significant amount of time, I personally don't like the "get 3 quotes for everything" approach. Getting a second quote if the first is obviously low though.

surfisup1000

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#1073861 25-Jun-2014 07:48

Personally, I'd let the insurer handle it.

It seems obvious the other driver is at fault. Giving you false contact details may not help their cause either (talk to police?), I'm pretty sure that is against the law.

You should not have to pay an excess, the insurer will claim all damages from the other driver.thats how my policy works, if you identify the other driver and they are at fault, no excess regardless of their ability to pay.

There might be issues in that repairs cost more than the market value of the car. In that case, maybe your car in uneconomic to fix and they'll just pay you out. Annoying I know, especially if your car was older but in really great running order.

bazzer

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#1073864 25-Jun-2014 08:00

What does "market value" mean to you? IF they pay you market value, then surely you should be able to get a similar car for that amount. If not, they are low-balling you. Your insurance company will deal with the 3rd party, whether they are insured or not.

If they are insured, you pretty much have nothing to worry about, I'd have thought. Your insurance companies will sort it out between you.

If they are not insured but they admit liability then again you don't really have anything to worry about. The only issue you could have is if they won't admit it to your insurance company. I've seen it before, they know it's their fault, but when push comes to shove and your insurance company contacts them to get confirmation they say it wasn't their fault. As mentioned above though, you were stationary and they hit you from behind so it's pretty cut and dried, except do you have any witnesses?

I would see what happens before I worry too much about whether you end up worse off than before you started.

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sen8or

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#1073887 25-Jun-2014 08:19

Just get your own "market value" prepared and go from there.

As someone else pointed out, if damage has bent the chassis, then I wouldn't want the car back, much better to get a replacement, only argument then is how much you should get. Prices on the Hondas seem all over the place depending on mileage etc, but take what you paid for it, then less 15-20 percent per year youve owned it, and that should be broadly right.

Inphinity

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#1073899 25-Jun-2014 08:21

Chaitanya:
My insurer -Vero with who I have a full 3rd party insurance-

So, do you have third-party, or full insurance? Presumably full, if Vero have accepted your claim...

accepted my claim and confirmed they are happy to write off because as per the panel beater the damage is pretty bad and costs between 5 and 6 grand! in which case Vero will have to write off. I made it clear to Vero that I won't be happy at all to accept the potential write-off because pre-accident valuation is not going to buy me the same car. If I accept the write-off Vero will pay the market price which is not going to get me the same car

I'm confused again here. Market value is the reasonable value of the vehicle immediately prior to the damage/loss. Thus, any market value payout should be enough that you can buy a reasonably similar vehicle (similar including style, age, and mileage).

sbiddle

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#1073901 25-Jun-2014 08:22

Your relationship is with your insurance company, provided you've given them the details of the 3rd party you shouldn't be worrying yourself dealing them with them. If your insurance company want to recover costs from the 3rd party driver, they will do that. It is common for companies to do this.

If the costs for repair are that high it's clear there is significant damage to the car, in which case it's not surprising they want to write it off.

As for the value of the car it's up to you to ensure that the cost your company offers you is adequate to replace the car with a similar vehicle. It should be, but ultimately it's up to you to fine tune this value if you want, allowing for the fact your premium will ultimately vary slightly depending on the exact insured cost.

Chaitanya

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#1073917 25-Jun-2014 08:45

Inphinity:
Chaitanya:
My insurer -Vero with who I have a full 3rd party insurance-

So, do you have third-party, or full insurance? Presumably full, if Vero have accepted your claim...

accepted my claim and confirmed they are happy to write off because as per the panel beater the damage is pretty bad and costs between 5 and 6 grand! in which case Vero will have to write off. I made it clear to Vero that I won't be happy at all to accept the potential write-off because pre-accident valuation is not going to buy me the same car. If I accept the write-off Vero will pay the market price which is not going to get me the same car

I'm confused again here. Market value is the reasonable value of the vehicle immediately prior to the damage/loss. Thus, any market value payout should be enough that you can buy a reasonably similar vehicle (similar including style, age, and mileage).

I have Full (comprehensive) insurance.

I bought my 2002 Honda Civic Hatch (Odo was at 95k km) in 2011 for 7k off the container. I am the first owner in NZ. I treat my car with utmost respect and look after it very well. I fix everything AA suggests during my 6-monthly Silver service. I only drove ~20K in 3 years. Current Odo is at 112k km. I changed the cambelt in Sep/2012, got all 4 brand new Firestone tyres last Nov. My car is pristine condition. What'd be the market value now? If I depreciate 10% every year, for 3 years the value goes down by $1900. So now the market value is only $5100 and I end up with $4800 if I discount excess.

I am not confident I can buy the similar quality car as mine for $4800 + rego + licensing fee not to mention the unknown mechanical risk or the cost I have to pay to insure the mechanical risk.

So I am hoping third pay will fix my car or compensate reasonably.

Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences/ ideas. They will help me build my case. I appreciate your time and effort.

Cheers,
Chai

bazzer

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#1073920 25-Jun-2014 08:48

Chaitanya: So I am hoping third pay will fix my car or compensate reasonably.

What would you consider "reasonable" and what did you have your car insured for?

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Chaitanya

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#1073922 25-Jun-2014 08:51

bazzer:
Chaitanya: So I am hoping third pay will fix my car or compensate reasonably.

What would you consider "reasonable" and what did you have your car insured for?

I insured for market value at the time of incident without being fully aware of what that actually meant. :(
Reasonable would be whatever it takes to restore my car to its pre-accident condition so I don't lose my hard-earned money for no mistake of mine. I might be naive. I am actually unsure.

Cheers,
Chai

bazzer

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#1073931 25-Jun-2014 09:03

Chaitanya:
bazzer:
Chaitanya: So I am hoping third pay will fix my car or compensate reasonably.

What would you consider "reasonable" and what did you have your car insured for?

I insured for market value at the time of incident without being fully aware of what that actually meant. :(
Reasonable would be whatever it takes to restore my car to its pre-accident condition. I am actually unsure.

Are you sure there wasn't a sum insured? It sounds like you had your car under insured and now you're (maybe) paying the price for that.

Given that it is uneconomic to restore your car to pre-accident condition (i.e. it's a write-off) then what would be reasonable? Even if you got $7k you could be in the situation of getting a car that you might consider inferior to your current car, and what would you expect them to do about that?

I guess if you were under insured then you could probably try to get the difference from the party at fault (and you don't even know if they are insured) but that won't be as easy as having insured your car for the correct amount and having them deal with it. Again, you shouldn't have to worry about the excess if the other party admits liability (which they should, if they were). If they don't then I guess you'll have to somehow get a ruling that they were liable.

In my experience, most (all?) motor vehicle insurance is at market value. You can't insure your Civic for $100k, but if you have it insured for $5k (the insurance company will depreciate it each year) but it's actually worth $10k they won't pay the higher amount. So, insure it for what it's worth or near enough. Even though your car has been damaged in the crash, it should be obvious if it is in good condition otherwise (mechanically, cosmetically) so there would be a good argument that your car might be worth the upper end of the range.

sbiddle

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#1073941 25-Jun-2014 09:11

You just need to be aware of double dipping here.

You either need to lodge a claim and let insurance handle this OR attempt court action against the 3rd party with no guarantee of success. You can't do both.

Inphinity

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#1073948 25-Jun-2014 09:20

Chaitanya:

I am not confident I can buy the similar quality car as mine for $4800 + rego + licensing fee not to mention the unknown mechanical risk or the cost I have to pay to insure the mechanical risk.

You get some examples of what similar cars (~2002 honda civics with ~112k kms) are selling for at dealers and present them to your insurance company as an example of market value.

Have the insurance company made any offer yet of replacement value? If not, see what they offer, but be prepared to counter, with examples of similar-car prices that you could actually go out and buy from a dealer or auction.

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