How long before human population control must be introduced?

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#1266621 24-Mar-2015 11:25

Wheelbarrow01:
How much longer do you think it will be before the UN/OECD/whoever makes a serious attempt to address the issue or do you think it will never happen?

I believe Gareth Morgan already has the answer to your question.......

The 2006 movie Idiocracy is either just satire, or a dire prediction of our future. The really scary thing is I am not sure which.

I presume that you're playing this for laughs.

If you are not then the really scary thing is that people think Idiocracy is anything other than a trashy sci fi movie.

It sounds portentous to say "dire prediction of our future", like it might happen, but it won't.

Wheelbarrow01

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Chorus

#1266625 24-Mar-2015 11:30

It sounds portentous to say "dire prediction of our future", like it might happen, but it won't.

It sounds portentous to use the word portentous....

And yes, my post was mostly based on humour, not so much on fact or even opinion.

The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Chorus NZ Ltd

Hammerer

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#1266626 24-Mar-2015 11:30

Geektastic:
Hammerer: Seriously, did you even look before you said "No one is seriously attempting to address" it!?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_growth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_catastrophic_risk
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_population_control
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisations_campaigning_for_population_stabilisation

It's been happening for a long time. There are many programmes addressing the related issues of population, mortality, poverty, contraception and fertility. There is hardly an aid organisation that doesn't have some policy or goal that has a primary or secondary impact of stabilising population.

The best way I've seen to reduce population growth is to make people more affluent. That works really well because wealth reduces the impact of many of the risks that drive people to have large families. Urbanisation has a similar but less marked impact.

It doesn't really get reflected in a lot of places though, does it? It's easy to see why families in poor nations are large. Less easy to see (in light of the above etc) why governments in many western nations give tax incentives to increase the population (apart from, cynically, wanting to farm more taxpayers...!)

I think that it is easy to see if you are interested in overseas aid and development, world history, and global politics. For example, I read about it for decades in Time, Newsweek and The Economist magazines. The problem isn't that it is not visible in lots of places but that too many people don't look beyond their own back yard.

Aredwood

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#1266727 24-Mar-2015 12:55

What about China s 1 child policy? Although that caused unintended problems. Also some countries with ageing populations are expected to have population decline eventually.

Geektastic

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#1266765 24-Mar-2015 13:41

Wheelbarrow01:
How much longer do you think it will be before the UN/OECD/whoever makes a serious attempt to address the issue or do you think it will never happen?

I believe Gareth Morgan already has the answer to your question.......

The 2006 movie Idiocracy is either just satire, or a dire prediction of our future. The really scary thing is I am not sure which.

I thought GM was that Cat Guy now?

andrew027

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#1266768 24-Mar-2015 13:47

After reading the initial post, all I can think of is:

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

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Geektastic

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#1266773 24-Mar-2015 13:53

andrew027: After reading the initial post, all I can think of is:

I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.

Truth.

wasabi2k

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#1266777 24-Mar-2015 13:55

oh please.

If Matrix quotes are going to be the extent of your argument then why bother?

Geektastic

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#1266800 24-Mar-2015 14:02

No one is making an argument.

I asked the question did people think we would need to limit the population at some point and if so when did they think that was.

The Matrix quote is a usefully succinct way of summing up the potential issue though and the fact that it comes from a film makes it no less relevant than if JFK had said it IMV.

Geektastic

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#1266801 24-Mar-2015 14:04

wasabi2k:
Geektastic: It's easy to see why families in poor nations are large. Less easy to see (in light of the above etc) why governments in many western nations give tax incentives to increase the population (apart from, cynically, wanting to farm more taxpayers...!)

I'd suggest you use examples or sources when making statements like this - otherwise they come across as sweeping generalizations with nothing to back them up.

You clearly have strong opinions on the poor - which is fine, but if you are trying to make a point you really need to back it up with something. You are reducing very complex issues to a single liner.

No one is discussing the poor in particular, we are discussing humanity as a whole.

Which bit would you like evidence for? That it is easy to see why families in poor nations have large families or that governments give incentives to people to have children?

kiwifidget

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#1266810 24-Mar-2015 14:08

War, famine, disease, dropping fertility rates, public health services.... surely those are enough to keep the population down already?!

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heylinb4nz

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#1266816 24-Mar-2015 14:20

Inphinity: This is why space projects need more funding. There's plenty of room on other astronomical objects.

Be interesting to see what mankind could do in this area if we didn't put our money and resources into war. Strangely enough it seems the Atmosphere of Venus at 50km Altitude would make a better home than the surface of Mars. Easier to get to as well.

heylinb4nz

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#1266827 24-Mar-2015 14:25

wasabi2k: Reading this after reading some of your other opinions makes for some scary reading man... anyway.

Democratic governments rely on the popular vote, which by definition will favour the majority, which isn't the above average. Reality will come into play and someone will have to define the criteria for the merit based system, measure and judge - and those people are fallible.

The only reality in which such a thing could work is if an AI took over, then you would have to deal with a real meritocracy - and I don't think many people would like that.

You are partially right about democracy, typically it favours and benefits those with the money (can also be manipulated by the same people), the whole voting thing is a control mechanism to make people think they have freedom of choice and thus have a sense of control....the truth is very far from this.

Dstarzero

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#1266829 24-Mar-2015 14:26

I actually made a misguided satirical thesis when I was studying political science in the Philippines. I basically suggested death penalty for adults earning less than $10k USD per annum, and probation for people who pay tax less than $5k per annum.

needless to say my professors were horrified. though it's not as bad a jonathan smith's "a modest proposal"

MikeB4

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#1266832 24-Mar-2015 14:30

There is already population control. The economics of having a family has resulted in smaller families to the point that in many countries their birth rate is not sufficient to maintain population. NZ is close to that, remove migration out of the population growth stats and it will show we will be close to zero growth.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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