Time Signals on National Radio Out by one second?

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#1342250 13-Jul-2015 14:55

kiwitrc:
login:
kiwitrc:
login: I'm definitely not streaming - I'm receiving live National Radio in Wellington on an FM receiver on 101.3 MHz. The 1 second variation in the time signal was only apparent to me after midday on 1st July. Up until then both were in sync exactly. The 1 second variation has been there ever since (12 days now). The GPS time on my Smart phone and atomic watch both agree. National Radio is one second behind both of them.

In that case it sounds like they haven't compensated for leap second.

In which case it would be National Radio that haven't compensated for the leap second because it is their time signal that is is one second behind.

They probably just need to adjust the pendulum control valve on their steam powered clock.

You should be able to google your watch model with leap second to see if there is anything about it.

The time pips on National Radio are (supposedly) sourced from msl's atomic clock. So they should be accurate.

Seems odd that MSL would "forget" to add the leap second, but anything's possible? Anyone checked against their ntp servers?

MikeB4

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#1342251 13-Jul-2015 14:56

Geektastic:
sbiddle: Has this always been this way?

I would have assumed that with the current encoding and broadcast distribution around the country that some latency has to occur and that 1s wouldn't be an unacceptable delay.

It either "is" the time or it "isn't".

You can't go around claiming it "is" 1300 when in fact it's "approximately 1300".....

It's all relative

linw

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#1342255 13-Jul-2015 15:02

MikeB4: Am I missing something here?

Yes, a second.

Behodar

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#1342262 13-Jul-2015 15:15

kiwitrc: In that case it sounds like they haven't compensated for leap second.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If one device is a second ahead, then it seems that it didn't add the extra second.

Device 1: 11:59:58 -> 11:59:59 -> 11:59:60 -> 12:00:00 -> 12:00:01
Device 2: 11:59:58 -> 11:59:59 -> 12:00:00 -> 12:00:01 -> 12:00:02 - This one appears to be a second ahead because it missed the leap second.

ubergeeknz

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#1342265 13-Jul-2015 15:19

Behodar:
kiwitrc: In that case it sounds like they haven't compensated for leap second.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If one device is a second ahead, then it seems that it didn't add the extra second.

Device 1: 11:59:58 -> 11:59:59 -> 11:59:60 -> 12:00:00 -> 12:00:01
Device 2: 11:59:58 -> 11:59:59 -> 12:00:00 -> 12:00:01 -> 12:00:02 - This one appears to be a second ahead because it missed the leap second.

Ahhh nice :) I was trying to figure that out in my head and it went a bit pear-shaped.

wellygary

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#1342294 13-Jul-2015 15:21

kiwitrc:
login: I'm definitely not streaming - I'm receiving live National Radio in Wellington on an FM receiver on 101.3 MHz. The 1 second variation in the time signal was only apparent to me after midday on 1st July. Up until then both were in sync exactly. The 1 second variation has been there ever since (12 days now). The GPS time on my Smart phone and atomic watch both agree. National Radio is one second behind both of them.

In that case it sounds like they haven't compensated for leap second.

Set your phone to use a NTP service,

the GPS derived times are not adjusted for leap seconds,

If you phone and watch then are 1 second different after you set the phone to NTP, then its the GPS derived time on the watch that is the problem,

https://www.msl.irl.cri.nz/about-us/news/2012/06/27/leap-seconds

Msl and thus Radio NZ are using time corrected for the leap second adjustment

kiwitrc

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#1342303 13-Jul-2015 15:32

ubergeeknz:
Behodar:
kiwitrc: In that case it sounds like they haven't compensated for leap second.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? If one device is a second ahead, then it seems that it didn't add the extra second.

Device 1: 11:59:58 -> 11:59:59 -> 11:59:60 -> 12:00:00 -> 12:00:01
Device 2: 11:59:58 -> 11:59:59 -> 12:00:00 -> 12:00:01 -> 12:00:02 - This one appears to be a second ahead because it missed the leap second.

Ahhh nice :) I was trying to figure that out in my head and it went a bit pear-shaped.

As was I, but got it the wrong way round :)

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Bananabob

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#1342313 13-Jul-2015 15:46

Gee guys we are talking about 1 second here it takes longer to say "1 second" than it takes to tick on my clock.

kiwitrc

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#1342316 13-Jul-2015 15:48

Bananabob: Gee guys we are talking about 1 second here it takes longer to say "1 second" than it takes to tick on my clock.

Hey, come on, Login has an Atomic accurate watch which currently is nearly as accurate as one with a cartoon mouse on the face, he wants to sort it :)

ubergeeknz

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#1342318 13-Jul-2015 15:49

Bananabob: Gee guys we are talking about 1 second here it takes longer to say "1 second" than it takes to tick on my clock.

Seconds matter.

Bananabob

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#1342326 13-Jul-2015 15:57

ubergeeknz:
Bananabob: Gee guys we are talking about 1 second here it takes longer to say "1 second" than it takes to tick on my clock.

Seconds matter.

Only when you add them up

login

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#1342403 13-Jul-2015 17:31

Thanks for the advice, guys. I finally figured it out. There's a separate adjustment in my atomic watch for leap seconds. All I had to do was stand outside under a clear sky, push a few buttons for exactly 7 seconds and the watch then automatically synced its time to the overhead satellites. I checked it against the 5:00:00 time signals on National Radio and it's spot on again!

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Dratsab

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#1342485 13-Jul-2015 18:26

Bananabob:
ubergeeknz:
Bananabob: Gee guys we are talking about 1 second here it takes longer to say "1 second" than it takes to tick on my clock.

Seconds matter.

Only when you add them up

Hang on a second...