New Immigration Changes

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#1768081 20-Apr-2017 19:16

tripper1000:
Immigration is also one of several drivers pushing up house/land prices. Gently applying the hand-brake to immigration will help take a little heat out of the housing market without popping the bubble.

The problem for the government is striking a balance between reducing pressure on infrastructure/housing and increasing pressure on employers.

These tweaks are necessary from time to time to keep things in balance.

These tweaks are necessary for the government because really poor infrastructure planning & cheap way to get votes with no vision. That is all.

mattwnz

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#1768084 20-Apr-2017 19:21

gzt:
tripper1000:

Immigration is also one of several drivers pushing up house/land prices. Gently applying the hand-brake to immigration will help take a little heat out of the housing market without popping the bubble.

The problem for the government is striking a balance between reducing pressure on infrastructure/housing and increasing pressure on employers.

These tweaks are necessary from time to time to keep things in balance.

These tweaks are necessary for the government because really poor infrastructure planning & cheap way to get votes with no vision. That is all.

Also it has made NZs economic growth look very good over recent years, with having a big population increase. The downside is that we will end up paying in the future as the population ages, and is one reason we have to put up the retirement eligibility age (which essentially means people have to work longer) in nearly 30 years time

gzt

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#1768090 20-Apr-2017 19:32

Oriphix:
old3eyes: One of the problems here in NZ is that employers don't want to have to train staff for on the job training.

Sadly I have the reverse problem at my work. I am pushing the guys to get certified and we cover that cost yet they don't do it. I guess people get to comfortable with there jobs as well at some stage.

Paying for certification cost is excellent. I'm sure you will get mail after this because covering certification cost is an excellent benefit. Having said that, paying for a certification exam is not actually training, or on the job training.

mattwnz

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#1768093 20-Apr-2017 19:41

I see Labour are wanting to cut 50,000 immigrants. That is a pretty big call. That is taking it from over 70k now, to around 20-25k. But I can see it causing big ripples in the economy, especially with possibly bursting the housing bubble if demand dries up. I also will likely mean that there will be a shortage of workers, which will hopefully mean people will be paid more. eg a lack of supply of workers should lead to increased wages. Although that could also lead to higher inflation to pay for those increased wages. Not sure how well thought out this is from Labour

Oriphix

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#1768170 20-Apr-2017 23:30

gzt: Paying for certification cost is excellent. I'm sure you will get mail after this because covering certification cost is an excellent benefit. Having said that, paying for a certification exam is not actually training, or on the job training.

On the job training is provided from the day you start :) after 1 year of employment we start to push for certification.

gzt

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#1768226 21-Apr-2017 07:27

old3eyes:
One of the problems here in NZ is that employers don't want to have to train staff for on the job training. They want them fully skilled with previous experience and from what I've seen in the telco industry they are quite happy to take on immigrants that will work for less than kiwis and they also falsify their CVs and then the companies expect the equipment suppliers to train their new staff for free.

I've seen a few Chorus techs over the years. I don't recall any with an apprentice or trainee.

nathan

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#1768230 21-Apr-2017 07:40

mattwnz:
I see Labour are wanting to cut 50,000 immigrants. That is a pretty big call. That is taking it from over 70k now, to around 20-25k. But I can see it causing big ripples in the economy, especially with possibly bursting the housing bubble if demand dries up. I also will likely mean that there will be a shortage of workers, which will hopefully mean people will be paid more. eg a lack of supply of workers should lead to increased wages. Although that could also lead to higher inflation to pay for those increased wages. Not sure how well thought out this is from Labour

That's just Angry Andy trying to get higher than Winston in the preferred prime minister rankings :)

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tripp

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#1768235 21-Apr-2017 07:47

I think some of the issue around this is that people from overseas have focus on a end goal (getting to stay in NZ and bring family over) also they maybe getting top ups from family from overseas who also have their eye on moving over. Also "some" NZ employers are cheap, they pay the lowest, expect years of training / experience for little money. Not up upskilling their work force and using 1/2 a** "on the job training" excuse to cover things. Most of my on the job training from my early years is "oh then you do this click that and push this, cool training finished you now know this so do it".

And then you get thing following from "employers"

Oriphix:

I agree if younger kiwi's can get everything they want, that's fantastic. So why should the immigration penalize the people that are happy to work for less money just because they are not kiwi's? Employers penalized having to up the salary to retain good workers. Not sure this is the magic bullet that the government is hoping for.

This is why you have issues. Yes you should pay more for good workers you are not being "penalized" for paying someone what they are worth. You sound cheap and money hungry.

Now I don't totally disagree, you do get some lazy people but this can be from anywhere not just New Zealanders. The laziest person I have every worked with was from Germany, she spent all day shopping for handbags or dog stuff. Yet I don't say all German people are lazy because of it.

The only way to fix this is by paying something that is fair that attracts the right kind of people you are after and keeping them happy in the job. It is also why you have the 90 day trial for new employees.

nzkiwiman

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#1768242 21-Apr-2017 07:59

gzt:
Oriphix:
old3eyes: One of the problems here in NZ is that employers don't want to have to train staff for on the job training.

Sadly I have the reverse problem at my work. I am pushing the guys to get certified and we cover that cost yet they don't do it. I guess people get to comfortable with there jobs as well at some stage.

Paying for certification cost is excellent. I'm sure you will get mail after this because covering certification cost is an excellent benefit. Having said that, paying for a certification exam is not actually training, or on the job training.

The department I work in (at the company I work) for offers access to training/certification cost (but not the cost of sitting the exam) and I have been on a week, 3 day and day course because of this
While it was good to learn a "little bit", none of it has ever been of benefit to my actual job. On the other hand when I have cried out for on the job training, nothing ever happens ...

tripp

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#1768246 21-Apr-2017 08:05

nzkiwiman:

gzt:
Oriphix:
old3eyes: One of the problems here in NZ is that employers don't want to have to train staff for on the job training.

Sadly I have the reverse problem at my work. I am pushing the guys to get certified and we cover that cost yet they don't do it. I guess people get to comfortable with there jobs as well at some stage.

Paying for certification cost is excellent. I'm sure you will get mail after this because covering certification cost is an excellent benefit. Having said that, paying for a certification exam is not actually training, or on the job training.

The department I work in (at the company I work) for offers access to training/certification cost (but not the cost of sitting the exam) and I have been on a week, 3 day and day course because of this
While it was good to learn a "little bit", none of it has ever been of benefit to my actual job. On the other hand when I have cried out for on the job training, nothing ever happens ...

My job is good, any training i have asked for I do get. They do bond you however if the course is over $3000 (just the course however not the total amount of travel and hotels etc).

Bond times range from 0 - 18 months and the amount to pay back if you leave goes down every 6 months. Which I think is fair, I get the training and the company gets the benefit of the training and a bit of insurance if I leave the job before 18 months.

I'm off to AU in June for a week training, total cost to company about 5k course is under the $3000 so not bonded for this training.

kobiak

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#1768269 21-Apr-2017 08:49

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11842199

Well, looks like aussies know everything about new kiwi emigration.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

Oriphix

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#1768292 21-Apr-2017 09:27

tripp: This is why you have issues. Yes you should pay more for good workers you are not being "penalized" for paying someone what they are worth. You sound cheap and money hungry.

Most of the guys we hire are straight out of Uni. Giving them a foot in the door with the chance to get real industry experience. We have in the past paid top dollar for staff only to be burned that they are hopeless. So this way if the person wants to work they will and if they prove themselves then we review pay after 6 months. This in my view is fair the employee shows that they can work and then we reward them accordingly. Its also a good way to weed out people that are just there to work for money or they are there because they want to learn and achieve something.

tripp

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#1768324 21-Apr-2017 10:09

Oriphix:
tripp: This is why you have issues. Yes you should pay more for good workers you are not being "penalized" for paying someone what they are worth. You sound cheap and money hungry.

Most of the guys we hire are straight out of Uni. Giving them a foot in the door with the chance to get real industry experience. We have in the past paid top dollar for staff only to be burned that they are hopeless. So this way if the person wants to work they will and if they prove themselves then we review pay after 6 months. This in my view is fair the employee shows that they can work and then we reward them accordingly. Its also a good way to weed out people that are just there to work for money or they are there because they want to learn and achieve something.

See this is another issue, of course people "work for money". They can't live off "learning and achievements". Learning and Achievements are extra's that both parties benefit from. This is why we have the issue of people being homeless, cutting back on food etc because "some" employers expect their staff to work for the love of the business from day 1. Pay what is fair, respect your employees and treat them as a human that has income needs. Don't expect them to work there guts out for your business when they don't get any profit share or most than a 1 or 2% increase in pay every couple of years (if they are lucky).

All this has created in NZ now is a "Look after yourself as no one else will" kind of employment. Employers want the world for little pay, workers need more money and this is why they feel undervalued, act up, and don't stick around in jobs anymore.

The best pay rises I have ever got was by jumping to another job as the current employer would not pay market or fair rates and would say stuff like "oh prove your worth and in 6 months and we might look at a 2% increase" .

Oriphix:

Most of the guys we hire are straight out of Uni. Giving them a foot in the door with the chance to get real industry experience.

Well that is good, but I bet you also do it because of the bottom line and how low you can pay them. I bet most of these guys don't stick around anyway because they find other jobs that pay higher rates. How high is your turn over? Going by the OP you made it sounds high because you are upset with the changes and the "cheaper" labour force that will be cut off after the changes.

Sounds like your company might need to have a sit down and a hard rethink about what is really fair.

richms

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#1768336 21-Apr-2017 10:15

Minimum wage for minimum work I have always said. If you want people to perform then make the pay based on it.

Richard rich.ms

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#1768349 21-Apr-2017 10:18

It's no wonder businesses have a hard time hiring good kiwis and turn to migrants. With around a 5% unemployment rate you're left with useless buggers who are essentially unemployable. The stories I've heard from mates in the trades - guys walking out after day 1 cos its 'too hard', can't get to work cos 'don't have any gas', and even not calling in when sick, just a no show followed by a lame excuse.

I think the immigration issue is overplayed. Sure, we want the right types of people coming here but the biggest change in recent years is that more kiwis are staying here rather than going overseas, and more kiwis are returning home from places like Australia.

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