SPOILERS - Avengers Infinity War

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SaltyNZ

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#2004446 29-Apr-2018 11:02

gehenna:

Cracked me up when they started to give Starlord a hard time about gaining weight :)

Drax is my favourite. Starload & Gomorra are trying to have a moment, then they notice Drax, standing there munching snacks. How long have you been standing there? About an hour. I have been perfecting the art of standing so still that I become invisible. Watch. Proceeds to slooooooowly eat snacks. You're not invisible, Drax.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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#2004506 29-Apr-2018 12:38

Journeyman:

tehgerbil:

I was happy with the direction Taika Waititi took with the sprinklings of humour and chemistry throughout, it had a similar feel to Thor: Ragnarok to it.

Taika didn't direct this.

No but he was influential and they kept in touch with him

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2018/04/how-taika-waititi-changed-avengers-infinity-war.html

gehenna

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#2004602 29-Apr-2018 16:31

He would have written the Thor parts with James Gunn who wrote the Guardians parts.

Lizard1977

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#2004992 30-Apr-2018 11:26

I really enjoyed the film. It felt like an appropriate culmination of a 10-year world-building franchise. I can't think of any other film franchise that has ever attempted this level of integration and connection. Only James Bond, with 24 films to date (over fifty years, though, rather than 10) even comes close to this level of collective storytelling, but even there it's a series of mostly independent stories (other than the unifying core characters). What I really like is that while each of the MCU films can stand alone, there is a secondary layer of enjoyment from the connections made to other films.

For that reason, I've found it unbelievable how many reviewers marked down Infinity War for demanding that the audience was familiar with all the previous films. What were they expecting? Who did they think this film was for? I'm sure there are probably people who are just casual viewers, who wander aimlessly into a theatre to see whatever film is playing, but I think it's unfair to criticise a film because people might not know the characters to get all the references. In my view, this is an unprecedented film, and so they basis for judgement needs to be on completely different metrics. For me, those are the cohesiveness of the different styles drawn from the MCU thus far, and the naturalness (?) of the character interactions. While not a comics fan, I at least appreciate that the dynamics of that medium which allows for awesome match-ups, and it's something that I don't think has ever really been tried at this scale in a cinematic medium. Sitting in the theatre, though, I felt they did a really good job of pairing characters for interesting exchanges, bringing humour and levity to what could otherwise be quite a depressing film about severe depopulation (more on that later). Watching Thor and Star Lord trading banter, or Doctor Strange and Tony Stark match egos, was great fun. I also appreciate the effort that would have been needed to keep the interwoven storylines straight. While there are bound to be many plot holes discovered on later viewings, they didn't detract from the overall enjoyment of the film.

Credit also has to be given for Marvel overcoming it's villain/antangonist problem. I think they started to solve it with Spiderman: Homecoming, and I was pleased that Vulture wasn't killed off; Black Panther continued this with Kilmonger, one of the few villains with an empathetic motivation and more than a "crush, kill, destroy" arc. Thanos, with his "destroy half the universe" plan, might seem quite one-dimensional, but there are strong evocations of eugenics in his plan, and relate to very authentic problem of how to deal with an overburdened population. Putting aside the universe-scale upsizing of the problem, it's interesting that he is on his mission not out of any moustache-twirling villainy, but rather a sincere belief that he is doing the right (and necessary) thing. That's what makes his character more interesting than so many other villains; he is seeking power for an, arguably, justifiable cause. While the arguments have echoes of the Nazis about them, they are still compelling to engage with in the context of the story. Also, the fact that his approach is one of complete fairness (no malice in who is selected - completely random) makes it harder to argue against. For a character that only appeared in a handful of cameos previously, I think they did a great job of building his character in a fully developed antagonist.

My only real gripe (and it's a small one), is the macguffin (in a movie of macguffins) of Tony's nanite suit. I always felt that they had done a good job of making his "superpower" engineering and technology. While it's plausible that the next evolution would be something like nanites, it felt like a huge leap that wasn't merited. Now, his suit can do whatever he needs, and there seems to be no limitations to contend with. I think back to Iron Man 2 when, in the climactic battle, he whips out a powerful laser weapon that wipes out all the drones in the vicinity, but he tells Rhodey it's a one-time deal. Giving him such endless adaptability makes his suit kind of boring to me.

One other niggle is the futility of so many heroes fighting with ludicrously underpowered weapons. It's a criticism that is often levelled at the MCU, that despite any deeper characterisation or plot development, it always descends to a fist fight. Throughout the film this started to emerge very starkly, when heroes like Thor or Hulk with extreme powers strike out against Thanos, but somehow Tony thinks a repulsor punch, or Star Lord firing his laser blaster, will do the trick. Yet they persist in throwing the equivalent of pebbles at Thanos, knowing full well that nothing of that magnitude will stand a chance. It reminds me of the hero pose near the end of the first Avengers film, where the original posse are circling the wagons - Tony with his suit, Cap with his Shield, Hulk with his hulk, and Black Widow reloading her pistol... uh, what? A couple of 9mm rounds are going to do much against the Chitauri? I'm all for heroes fighting against the odds, but why bother when it's clearly not going to do anything. Guess that's why I'm not a superhero...

Despite all this, great film, really enjoyed it. Would easily give it 8/10, and looking forward to watching again on home release.

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#2005272 30-Apr-2018 15:39

Also, forgot to address the "massacre" at the end. I was surprised how many people were surprised by this, and that the "realisation" that it wasn't permanent was something noteworthy. A few reviewers referred to it as a fake-out, or being sold a bill of goods. My wife likened it to the legendary "Dallas" shower scene. However, for me, it was totally acceptable, if not predictable. I think most people who had been anticipating the film knew that there were going to be major character deaths, but there are only so many that can be killed off "for real" - those without upcoming movies, for instance. I read a good article that explained how the "business" aspect of movie making has made such a storytelling convention difficult to execute. When you have characters that are publicly committed to their own ongoing franchise, there's only so much finality you can give them part way through their contracts. But this isn't new - how many TV shows like to write as if the lead character is in mortal danger every week, when we know there's another 15 episodes to go in this season? Do we really think that they are going to air 15 episodes of white noise? I suppose there are some casual viewers who may not follow every news or spoiler, but it doesn't take much to realise that however high the stakes may be, ultimately it's not going to end like that. There are more movies to come, even if you don't know about next year's Avengers film (and that it was initially going to be part 2 to this film), so it's not really a surprise that characters might die, then come back to life. Especially in a film rooted in the comic book world, where death is only ever a minor inconvenience.

The deaths which did have the most impact were those that fell outside Thanos' finger-snap: Loki at the start, Gamora on Vormir. I think it's conceivable that they may not be reversed, though I do have a theory that in being the sacrifice that is used to release the Soul Stone, Gamora herself will be revealed to be part of the stone, and could exert influence that way somehow.

I don't feel cheated by the knowledge that most, if not all, of those massacre deaths will be reversed; in this type of film it's almost a certainty, and people who think that they shouldn't have done that, or that they should let those characters stay dead, are being naive. I think the fact of the reversal is not the interesting part, but how they choose to approach it in the sequel. It could be cheap and lazy (alternate universe, time travel, Tony steps out of the shower after the first Avengers film), but I have faith that the writers and the directors will put the effort to finding a creative way to explain things.

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#2005330 30-Apr-2018 16:55

Lots has already been said, so all I will say is this:

Saw it on opening day.

Amazed at the deathly silence at the end in the theatre (and some muffled sniffing from the more sensitive types).

Blown away by Peter Parker's pleas to "Mr Stark" prior to misting away - very well acted - got me in the feels.

Overall, wall to wall action, packed with in-jokes and marvelisms.

I want to see it again a few times to really wrap my head around it...it was a full 2.5hrs...

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Lizard1977

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#2021906 24-May-2018 15:37

Over the past few weeks, I've read a number of articles where the Russo Brothers have stated that the deaths won't be reversed. One thing in particular I read explained that Black Panther could be "really" dead, because Black Panther is a mantle that can be handed down to someone else, so they can still do more Black Panther movies (but presumably without Chadwick Boseman). I'm having a hard time taking this kind of stuff seriously. I really can't believe that Disney/Marvel were happy for the Russos to take a character like Black Panther (which success is in no small part due to the lead actor in the role) and chuck him in the bin for the sake of storytelling weight (along with any other character that might be rebooted with a new actor/actress). While that might be a long-standing comic book tradition (and certainly adds to the longevity of the storylines), it's a bit different when you're dealing with real-world casting. Marvel have had some success with invigorated films over the past year - Tom Holland as Spiderman, Chadwick Boseman as Black Panther - but somehow they're fine with having to recast those characters? Doubtful...

Which leads me to my point - the more they insist that these deaths are meaningful and "permanent", the more they dig themselves into a hole where they will either be revealed as having reset their (by most measures wildly successful) franchises - which if true is a ballsy, unprecedented act by any studio at this level - or it will be revealed as a big hoax. I kind of hope it's the first, because if it's the latter they are going to look really stupid. Going around declaring: "it's not a prank, all these characters are dead, honest, swear to god, we're not making this up!" and then going "Haha, fooled you all! We were just tricking you! Wait, what do you mean you didn't believe it?" But if they are genuine about all these deaths, then we should expect them to start announcing casting calls for a new Spiderman sometime in the next few months (sequel comes out in 2019), a new Black Panther (2020?), Doctor Strange, Guardians...

I suppose there is a third option - the deaths are permanent, but the existing cast are kept on. But that means delving into other, equally unsatisfying approaches - alternate universes, pre-dating the sequels so they don't occur post Infinity War, which is going to limit the impact of those films from this point on - if we know when they are going to die, then those films will lack the very stakes that the Russo Brothers complained that they wouldn't have in Infinity War unless they were prepared to kill off so many main characters.

Put simply, I think they are digging a big hole for themselves. Maybe they have some ingenious way to climb out, and have it be satisfying from a story-telling perspective, but the more I read about them insisting it's not a fake-out, the more I disbelieve it ("never believe anything until it's been officially denied!")

irongarment

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#2021933 24-May-2018 16:35

The movie was too long. I had heard that everybody dies, so I was hoping they'd get on with it.

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