Grammar experts, please comment...

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jpoc

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#2145913 15-Dec-2018 20:37

Behodar:

I'd have gone with "I" for both of those; as DarthKermit pointed out, if you make it "I am" then "I" is clearly correct. For the rephrased sentence, "I have" also seems correct to me, so again I'd go with "I".

If you add "am" to the end of the sentence, that makes it correct but it does not mean that it is correct to use I without am.

jpoc

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#2145914 15-Dec-2018 20:41

Rikkitic:

geekIT:

I recently posted this query on several websites that purport to answer grammar questions.

But I've had no answers yet, so maybe the question is more difficult than I thought.

BTW, it's not a trick question - just a matter of grammar.

And I don't know the answer, though I do have a suspect.

Anyone care to chance their arm?

Question:

Which of the first two are correct?

1) ...there are many people who are more influential than I.

2) ...there are many people who are more influential than me.

Alternatively, if I were to rephrase the sentences, which of the next two would be correct?

3) ...there are many people with more influence than I.

4) ...there are many people with more influence than me.

Additionally, if the answer is 'I', there may be an issue with whether or not 'am' should follow 'I', as in '...more influential than I am'.

Personally, I don't think it sounds right.

The way to tell is just to complete the sentence with the missing word. As in, "there are many people more influential than I am" (as opposed to "there are many people more influential than me am"). Obviously, the second version is wrong. Likewise, compare "there are many people with more influence than I have" to "there are many people with more influence than me have".

The correct version should be obvious.

This use of have is wrong as it does not match the rest of the sentence. You could write "There are many people who have more influence than I have" but even then, you could also write "There are many people who have more influence than me."

jpoc

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#2145915 15-Dec-2018 20:44

Hammerer:

There's lots of help on these sort of questions (e.g. https://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Between-%22I%22-and-%22Me%22-Correctly) although you've provided more difficult examples because we don't encounter these issues much in English unlike German and some other languages.

There are relatively simple rules around verb-subject-object ordering.

Basic rules:

A. "I" is the subject/doing e.g. "I love you" or "I like you a lot". It is a nominative pronoun.

B. "Me" is the object/receiving e.g. "You love me" or "You like me a lot". It is an accusative pronoun.

Rewrite the sentences:

C. Remove any other parties e.g. "They liked Hugo and I" becomes "They liked I" which is better written "They liked me"

D. Reverse the sentence and the same pronoun doesn't normally work. See your questions:

1. "There are many people who are more influential than I" becomes "I am less influential than many other people" so chances are "I" should not be used in 1.

2. "There are many people who are more influential than me." becomes "Me am less influential than many other people." which is wrong so "me" is more likely to be correct in 2.

3. "There are many people with more influence than I." becomes "I have less influence than many other people." so chances are "I" should not be used in 3.

4. "There are many people with more influence than me." becomes "Me have less influence than many other people." which is wrong so "me" is more likely to be correct in 4.

P.S. Grouped examples in A & B to avoid ambiguity.

Some posters know their stuff. This is an example.

amiga500

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#2146054 16-Dec-2018 11:00

The problem is that formal teaching of grammar went out of fashion with the educators. However, those who are really good with grammar probably picked up 99% of the rules naturally by reading & watching the BBC!

Rikkitic

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#2146081 16-Dec-2018 12:26

You can pick up a lot if you care about it. Most people seem not to.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Hammerer

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#2146091 16-Dec-2018 12:41

School was bad for grammar. We were barely taught any sentence structure. I had to learn it to write good essays and reports.

The main thing that I learnt is that many of the grammatical rules are about the style of written or oral communication: formal versus informal; active versus passive; personal versus impersonal; abstract versus concrete; and so on.

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allio

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#2146485 17-Dec-2018 11:03

I would use "me" in the example sentences, following the general "simplify the sentence and make sure the word stands comfortably alone" rule.

However, speaking technically and following very formal rules of English, I think "I" might actually be correct.

The rule is that when a pronoun follows a linking verb (i.e. a verb that doesn't connote an action but rather gives information about its subject, such as "is"), the pronoun should be in the subject case. That means "it is I" is technically correct and "it's me" is not.

"You and Tim are faster than Sarah and I" is correct.

"You and Tim ran faster than Sarah and me" is correct.

So... "there are many people who are more influential than I" is correct.

However it sounds unbearably formal and old-fashioned. So unless you consistently say "it was he" rather than "it was him", I would use "me" and be done with it

Edit: wait, I think I got that wrong. Me/I is just part of the object, rather than the object itself. Which would mean the linking verb rule wouldn't apply, and me would be correct.

"There (subject) are (linking verb) many people who are more influential than me" (object).

In conclusion: I don't know! English is a stupid language. Leaving this mess here to show my work - can anyone clear it up?

amiga500

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#2146603 17-Dec-2018 15:59

Kids and teens are amazed to hear about all the good literature Barry Crump had read before he even started writing 'A good keen man' and his other books. If Crump had not read a lot he might not have had the skills needed to author such good books.

geekIT

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#2147109 18-Dec-2018 14:03

Thanks, everyone, for your comments.

I told my character what you'd all said.

He mulled it over for a bit then wrote:

“I thought that while my name is up there in lights I might as well take advantage of the popularity to get some other points across. I know this sounds bigheaded—there are many people who are much more influential than I am, battling every day to sort out these problems. Still, one more voice might help.”

Wait...no, he's changed 'I am' to 'me'.

Trump crowned? No faux King way!

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