Operation Ironside raids

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#2720670 8-Jun-2021 12:35

SaltyNZ:

Exactly my point. Broken encryption is not required in order for law enforcement to get the data if they need it.

Sure, but I'll stick with my comments above and my conclusion so far:

This "an0m" trojan bust was peanuts - but will make no difference to illicit drug supply. We've rounded up some Comancheros sent here as 501 deportees. Our other organised crime syndicates in NZ will fill any void.

But it's been "politicised" as being much bigger than it is, to gain public support for proposed legislation in Australia which will allow authorities freer access to encrypted data and greater mass surveillance.

There's supposed to be related press conferences in the US and Europe.

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#2720671 8-Jun-2021 12:44

Yeah pretty much but it's cat and mouse like the entire War on Drugs, Irony is if encryption is weakened or backdoored it will push these groups to more extreme parts of the world to access non-compromised tech building ties and pipelines between these groups and borderline terror groups

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elpenguino

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#2720689 8-Jun-2021 14:03

SaltyNZ:

Fred99:

Presumably that mistake won't happen again.

I wouldn't bet on it. People always slip up somewhere.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/how-we-tracked-down-australia-s-most-wanted-man-to-his-glamorous-new-life-20210601-p57x7w.html

According to the article, Anon is the 3rd app that has been used by law enforcement agencies to prosecute Ozzie crims.

Sheesh. Slow learners.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2720692 8-Jun-2021 14:11

Fred99:

But it's been "politicised" as being much bigger than it is, to gain public support for proposed legislation in Australia which will allow authorities freer access to encrypted data and greater mass surveillance.

I think you're arguing the same point I am; the difference being that I am emphasising that this bust, contrary to what they will say, proves that the freer access to encrypted data and greater mass surveillance are actually not required.

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Fred99

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#2720716 8-Jun-2021 14:42

SaltyNZ:

Fred99:

But it's been "politicised" as being much bigger than it is, to gain public support for proposed legislation in Australia which will allow authorities freer access to encrypted data and greater mass surveillance.

I think you're arguing the same point I am; the difference being that I am emphasising that this bust, contrary to what they will say, proves that the freer access to encrypted data and greater mass surveillance are actually not required.

In Aus, they've already passed legislation (in 2018) requiring tech companies to provide keys to encrypted data. But they need a warrant - so it's not really suitable for mass surveillance operations.

The issue isn't really what's required (ie if the objective is to increase surveillance of organised crime syndicates), it's what the public *think* is required. My bad in a post above referring to the PM of Australia as "Scotty from Marketing" - which I forgot was against FUG. But when he fronted up to start and then concluded the press conference, pushing a "moral panic" agenda, it seemed to be exactly what he was there for.

They controlled the same drug markets long before cellphones with encrypted messaging apps existed.

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#2720732 8-Jun-2021 15:27

Fred99:

In Aus, they've already passed legislation (in 2018) requiring tech companies to provide keys to encrypted data. But they need a warrant - so it's not really suitable for mass surveillance operations.

We did it in 2013. It's part of the TICSA act. A telecommunications service provider is obliged to offer interception in the clear to law enforcement agencies. Obviously the traditional telcos all automatically fall under this, but it is also worded in such a way (provides a "telecommunications service" to more than (from memory) 4000 people) that you could easily apply it to anyone you wanted to - iMessage, Facebook Messenger, or whatever - and it gives the Minister the power to make a declaration by order in council.

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#2720734 8-Jun-2021 15:30

I'm conflicted on this.. I don't have much sympathy for organised crime, but equally I believe every person should have access to encrypted anonymous communications. Not to mention there wouldn't be much of an illegal drug trade if we just legalised everything people wanted to consume.

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup.

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Fred99

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#2720749 8-Jun-2021 15:56

Lias:

I'm conflicted on this.. I don't have much sympathy for organised crime.

When there's a ready market and profit to be made, even churches get involved in organised crime:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300324958/holy-smokes-illicit-tobacco-sold-in-auckland-church-fundraisers'

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#2720750 8-Jun-2021 15:57

Wasn’t this app built by the FBI and fed to the crims by undercover officers, specifically for the purpose of cracking this operation? Therefore ‘back-door’ and ‘cracked encryption’ comments don’t apply in this case?

Did I mis-hear the reporting on this?

Fred99

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#2720763 8-Jun-2021 16:10

BlinkyBill:

Wasn’t this app built by the FBI and fed to the crims by undercover officers, specifically for the purpose of cracking this operation? Therefore ‘back-door’ and ‘cracked encryption’ comments don’t apply in this case?

Did I mis-hear the reporting on this?

There's more info here:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/06/what-is-the-an0m-app-and-how-was-it-used-to-catch-kiwi-criminals.html

The users didn't know the phones were a back door, and expected the encryption was secure, so it's related, even if a "sting" operation and not cracking encryption or hacking a back door etc.

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#2720765 8-Jun-2021 16:12

BlinkyBill:
Wasn’t this app built by the FBI and fed to the crims by undercover officers, specifically for the purpose of cracking this operation? Therefore ‘back-door’ and ‘cracked encryption’ comments don’t apply in this case?

Did I mis-hear the reporting on this?

That's how I read it

Cyril

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#2720840 8-Jun-2021 17:52

Links to Euro / US FBI announcements:

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#2720842 8-Jun-2021 18:09

Now I can't get the idea of a new type of Condom out of my head.

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jpoc

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#2720846 8-Jun-2021 18:14

What I do not get is that in the police press release they reported that had had seized all kinds of stuff - drugs, cash, utes etc - and then also "kilograms of iodine."

What's that for? It is neither a drug nor an ingredient of home brew explosive. Indeed, as far as I know, it is not illegal to possess it so what is the big deal?

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#2720850 8-Jun-2021 18:23

jpoc:

What I do not get is that in the police press release they reported that had had seized all kinds of stuff - drugs, cash, utes etc - and then also "kilograms of iodine."

What's that for? It is neither a drug nor an ingredient of home brew explosive. Indeed, as far as I know, it is not illegal to possess it so what is the big deal?

Iodine Used in Methamphetamine Production

Methamphetamine producers use iodine crystals to produce hydriodic acid, the preferred reagent in the ephedrine/pseudoephedrine reduction method of d-methamphetamine production. A reagent is a chemical used in reactions to convert a precursor into a finished product.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

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