Do I need an employment lawyer?

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#2752160 30-Jul-2021 08:28

Just one thing to add. Don't feel like you are doing something wrong by staying in the job once you've decided to leave. Providing you continue to do your job you are doing nothing immoral.

Employment is a transaction where you trade your time for money. Personal relationships and loyalty are important but also go both ways. In the end this is an economic relationship not a marriage.

nzkiwiman

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#2752219 30-Jul-2021 09:01

I have now resigned; and yes it does mean in one month I will be unemployed.

I have tried so hard to convince myself that I was being rash and jumping to conclusions all over "a few thousand" and it was better to take the new contract to a lawyer (and when I say lawyer I mean community law) and "wait it out" but then reality sets in and all the other issues that I have faced over the last 9.5 years that I am constantly raising as issues and that never get solved as still going to be there.

I am just so sick of the fight and the stress leave I had to take a few months ago really cemented a few things that I had been ignoring for far too many years.

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#2752258 30-Jul-2021 10:15

Life is to short to be full of stress.

Good luck and happiness with the future.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Senecio

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#2752262 30-Jul-2021 10:18

Wish you all the best in your future endeavours. It cen be a strange feeling when you've resigned in the situation you've described. Part relief that you'll soon be out of there, part stress that you're now looking for a new job. As others have explained, its a good time to be looking for work at present.

You might just be pleasantly surprised by what turns up.

nzkiwiman

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#2752264 30-Jul-2021 10:33

As am update; I got the "please don't leave, we recognise your contributions and we will make everything ok" phone call from the top manager in my chain of command

I let him talk but I knew that deep down he still wasn't understanding the compounding issue that lead to this decision.

He mentioned coming back to me by the end of the day with a proposal.

I have read about this happening to others, but have never been in the situation. My gut feeling is "if they bring in extra money - why wasn't that there last time" & that the environmental issues will still be there because they are not being addressed, so in a months time I'll want to leave again.

Scott3

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#2752265 30-Jul-2021 10:38

Obviously a gutsy move to quit a job without having a replace job offer, so congratulations for having the guts to go that route. It it has got to the point where you made that decision, it is definitely the right decision.

On the bright size, you will be looking for work in the hottest job market we have seen for a while.

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#2752266 30-Jul-2021 10:41

nzkiwiman:
I have now resigned; and yes it does mean in one month I will be unemployed.

I have tried so hard to convince myself that I was being rash and jumping to conclusions all over "a few thousand" and it was better to take the new contract to a lawyer (and when I say lawyer I mean community law) and "wait it out" but then reality sets in and all the other issues that I have faced over the last 9.5 years that I am constantly raising as issues and that never get solved as still going to be there.

I am just so sick of the fight and the stress leave I had to take a few months ago really cemented a few things that I had been ignoring for far too many years.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you and you find a job that brings you happiness.

MikeB4

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#2752269 30-Jul-2021 10:46

Remember you don't need to take a lawyer as such into Employment agreement negotiations, the Act provides that you can take an advocate/support person of your choice with you. The Act also provides the an employer must act as a good employer and allow open and fair negotiations.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

GV27

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#2752270 30-Jul-2021 10:46

nzkiwiman:

He mentioned coming back to me by the end of the day with a proposal.

I have read about this happening to others, but have never been in the situation. My gut feeling is "if they bring in extra money - why wasn't that there last time" & that the environmental issues will still be there because they are not being addressed, so in a months time I'll want to leave again.

Remember, you can take their offer for a better package AND still start looking for a new place to work.

You can win the battle and the war if you decide that's what you want to do.

nzkc

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#2752276 30-Jul-2021 11:00

nzkiwiman:
As am update; I got the "please don't leave, we recognise your contributions and we will make everything ok" phone call from the top manager in my chain of command

I let him talk but I knew that deep down he still wasn't understanding the compounding issue that lead to this decision.

He mentioned coming back to me by the end of the day with a proposal.

I have read about this happening to others, but have never been in the situation. My gut feeling is "if they bring in extra money - why wasn't that there last time" & that the environmental issues will still be there because they are not being addressed, so in a months time I'll want to leave again.

Whatever it is my advice here is to just say "thanks I'll take the weekend to consider it".

frankv

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#2752277 30-Jul-2021 11:05

nzkiwiman:

As am update; I got the "please don't leave, we recognise your contributions and we will make everything ok" phone call from the top manager in my chain of command

I let him talk but I knew that deep down he still wasn't understanding the compounding issue that lead to this decision.

He mentioned coming back to me by the end of the day with a proposal.

I have read about this happening to others, but have never been in the situation. My gut feeling is "if they bring in extra money - why wasn't that there last time" & that the environmental issues will still be there because they are not being addressed, so in a months time I'll want to leave again.

His proposal is just a proposal that will solve his problem (you leaving with valuable knowledge amid a difficult hiring market). You don't have to accept it. After you've read it, put together a counter-proposal which includes conditions that prevent a recurrence of the issues that are causing you to resign. Be generous to yourself, because (a) this may just be a starting point for negotiations, and (b) you've put up with this shit for a while, and (c) you don't want to be in the same situation next month or next year, and (d) you'll never be in a stronger position. Consider something like an immediate salary increase, plus an annual increase for inflation, plus something for loyalty and knowledge.

Worst case, he'll reject your counter-proposal outright, and you'll be no worse off than you are now. Best case you get to transform your job into something you actually want and enjoy. As a bonus, you'll have a relationship with the top manager. Build that and make sure it's visible, which will deter your managers from making weasel moves in the future.

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nzkiwiman

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#2752281 30-Jul-2021 11:17

Any offer they made will need to be in writing and be able to be presented to a employment lawyer (the community law centre, I don't want to spend money on a real one). Until then, the resignation is still active and the timer is ticking over.

One of my friends has made a suggestion that I need to lock in any promises that they make into my employment contract with penalties if they break them (and probably if I break them as well)

nzkiwiman

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#2752292 30-Jul-2021 11:38

frankv:

His proposal is just a proposal that will solve his problem (you leaving with valuable knowledge amid a difficult hiring market). You don't have to accept it. After you've read it, put together a counter-proposal which includes conditions that prevent a recurrence of the issues that are causing you to resign. Be generous to yourself, because (a) this may just be a starting point for negotiations, and (b) you've put up with this shit for a while, and (c) you don't want to be in the same situation next month or next year, and (d) you'll never be in a stronger position. Consider something like an immediate salary increase, plus an annual increase for inflation, plus something for loyalty and knowledge.

Worst case, he'll reject your counter-proposal outright, and you'll be no worse off than you are now. Best case you get to transform your job into something you actually want and enjoy. As a bonus, you'll have a relationship with the top manager. Build that and make sure it's visible, which will deter your managers from making weasel moves in the future.

Thanks frankv; very well put together and same ideas are currently rattling around my head - so nice to be able to see them written down in an organised manner.

MikeB4

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#2752296 30-Jul-2021 11:42

A lot of lawyers offer a free first consult to determine if you have a case. It could be argued that their actions amount to attempted constructive dismissal. A skilled employment lawyer will determine very quickly if you have ground to pursue and could well be a good investment in time and money.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

deadlyllama

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#2752398 30-Jul-2021 12:28

nzkiwiman:
Any offer they made will need to be in writing and be able to be presented to a employment lawyer (the community law centre, I don't want to spend money on a real one). Until then, the resignation is still active and the timer is ticking over.

One of my friends has made a suggestion that I need to lock in any promises that they make into my employment contract with penalties if they break them (and probably if I break them as well)

That sounds way too complicated. They've had notice from you about issues in the past and haven't sorted them.

I had a similar experience in 2008. Massively overstressed, ended up with what I now recognise was probably burnout. Couldn't sleep. Employer said they'd fix things but didn't. I was a key person who knew our code inside out. Things didn't get better. 8 months later I accepted my friend's second offer to interview with his employer and took a new job with a pay rise and cut in hours (4 day week FTW)!

Stay on while looking for a new job, unless things are so bad you can't face going in again. If you've got friends in the industry let then know you're looking.

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