can police breath test you on private property?

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115 posts

Master Geek

#187495 5-Jan-2009 13:06

richgamer: because it would be hard to prove if the person didn't just go home, drink alcohol before the police arrived which means the person could just say i wasn't over the limit when on the road but once i got home i drank alcohol which is why i'm over the limit now.

First of all, if you did this, or did drink driving in any case, you'd come under my lovely title of "choad".

Second of all, because of the way the body works, you could have a couple of shots of vodka, and if you were breath or blood tested straight away, you wouldn't be considered over the limit - Alcohol needs time to get into the bloodstream before it shows up - alcohol shows up in your breath, because the air you breath passes over tiny veins in your lungs, picking up the alcohol from the blood, not generally whats just on your breath (although this does affect it too).

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#187504 5-Jan-2009 13:35

GeekGuy: Years ago ... I had a friend who was a Traffic Cop (back when they were separate from the Police) and he advised me that if ever I got drunk and crashed my car that I should never go home and to stay somewhere else for the next 24 hours, as they will visit your house and test you for alcohol. That said, he also stated that if he ever caught me drink driving he would have no problems with charging me as he had no time for drink drivers and has seen the results of what they can cause.
All this was back in the early 80's and I dont know whether the laws have changed or not since then.

Back in the days of the traffic Cops/police split, traffic cops did not have the same powers of entry and search as the police, this led to a number of high profile cases of them not being able to follow offenders onto private property on the suspicion of committing a traffic offence.
I think the law got changed to beef up their powers,which are the ones in corksta's post.
But it became rather moot with the merger, as they assumed the full entry powers under the Crimes act that police always had.

Asmodeus

1015 posts

Uber Geek

#187506 5-Jan-2009 13:50

Tahii:
richgamer: because it would be hard to prove if the person didn't just go home, drink alcohol before the police arrived which means the person could just say i wasn't over the limit when on the road but once i got home i drank alcohol which is why i'm over the limit now.

First of all, if you did this, or did drink driving in any case, you'd come under my lovely title of "choad".

Second of all, because of the way the body works, you could have a couple of shots of vodka, and if you were breath or blood tested straight away, you wouldn't be considered over the limit - Alcohol needs time to get into the bloodstream before it shows up - alcohol shows up in your breath, because the air you breath passes over tiny veins in your lungs, picking up the alcohol from the blood, not generally whats just on your breath (although this does affect it too).

This is mostly right. The breathalysers measure acetaldehyde I believe, not ethanol. Acetaldehyde is the principle metabolite of alcohol and is excreted via the lungs. Therefore the alcohol needs to be metabolised to be measured by a breathalyser. If you took your first shot of vodka and literally spat it down the breathalyser without swallowing any, you'd pass :) This is OK, as it is the metabolites themselves that cause the intoxication (and hangover!). I can't rememebr exactly how long it takes but it isn't long... Think about how quickly you get flushed after drinking a wine, thats the acetaldehyde (and its own metabolites).

The drug disulfiram (Antabuse) prevents this acetaldehyde being converted into less toxic metabolites and causes it to build up rapidly in your blood makeing you feel like utter sh1te and stopping you drinking. Similarly, people who lack the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase suffer similar effects and cannot drink alcohol (up to 50% of Asians I believe).

/ OT toxicology lecture

sleemanj

1490 posts

Uber Geek

#187516 5-Jan-2009 14:16

Asmodeus: So what happens if you have a locked gate at the street and/or large dogs, etc and refuse to come out of the house? Can they climb the fence or have the dogs snared or something?

Short answer - yes. Snared, shot, clubbed over the head with a baton, whatever - all depends how urgently the police want in as to whether they call in the SPCA or somebody I imagine.

By law property owners must ensure access to the front door from memory, so if you have bitey dogs you should keep them out the back, or live with the consequences. I believe it came up in the news a few years back actually.

---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...

Aaroona

3193 posts

Uber Geek

#187546 5-Jan-2009 15:27

sleemanj:
Asmodeus: So what happens if you have a locked gate at the street and/or large dogs, etc and refuse to come out of the house? Can they climb the fence or have the dogs snared or something?

Short answer - yes. Snared, shot, clubbed over the head with a baton, whatever - all depends how urgently the police want in as to whether they call in the SPCA or somebody I imagine.

By law property owners must ensure access to the front door from memory, so if you have bitey dogs you should keep them out the back, or live with the consequences. I believe it came up in the news a few years back actually.

Far out, i didnt know that one..
thing is, if you have nothing to hide, then why wouldnt you let them.

If you werent driving, then theres no problem. Just not doing as you've been asked just makes the police more suspicious of you. lol.

Oh well. thats my feelings on it anyways..

portege

188 posts

Master Geek

#187588 5-Jan-2009 16:48

I was to ALWAYS opt for a blood test as you have the rights to ignore the breath test.

So have a quick think about this - at 4am, you opt for the blood test and they take you into downtown police station, find you a QUALIFIED doctor in which you are legally allowed to ask for - this could take anywhere up to 45 minutes in which you might be just under

Don't drink and drive though

sleemanj

1490 posts

Uber Geek

#187591 5-Jan-2009 16:56

portege:

So have a quick think about this - at 4am, you opt for the blood test and they take you into downtown police station, find you a QUALIFIED doctor in which you are legally allowed to ask for - this could take anywhere up to 45 minutes in which you might be just under

Sounds like an old wives tale to me. I'm no doctor, but I think you'll find that the rate of decay in the system is surely understood and it would be a simple matter to calculate just how intoxicated you were likely to be 45 minutes before.

---
James Sleeman
I sell lots of stuff for electronic enthusiasts...

Equinox IT

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gkjb

128 posts

Master Geek

#187592 5-Jan-2009 17:09

sleemanj:

Sounds like an old wives tale to me. I'm no doctor, but I think you'll find that the rate of decay in the system is surely understood and it would be a simple matter to calculate just how intoxicated you were likely to be 45 minutes before.

It is probably very simple to calculate but I doubt it would be admissable in court as it is debatable that your metabolism/absorption runs at that rate, or that it is an accurate scientific measure. Not that it really matters though...drink-drivers should be shot

portege

188 posts

Master Geek

#187596 5-Jan-2009 17:15

I'm on the same page - metabolism of alcohol is different amongst everone

But just don't drink and drive

Dratsab

3946 posts

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#187599 5-Jan-2009 17:21

portege: So have a quick think about this - at 4am, you opt for the blood test and they take you into downtown police station, find you a QUALIFIED doctor in which you are legally allowed to ask for - this could take anywhere up to 45 minutes in which you might be just under

You're more likely to be over as that 45 minutes gives more time for more alcohol to work its way into your blood stream.

Police have on-call doctors so 45 minutes is probably an outside time, especially if the doctor is already present to deal with another drink driver or prisoner.

In relation to other parts of your post, you can refuse to undergo a breath test, after having been required to take one, in which case you will be required to give a sample of blood. You can refuse this also, in which case you'll be arrested and charged with failing to provide a sample of blood.

The question at this point doesn't become one of whether or not you were over the limit, it becomes one of whether you provided a blood sample or not. So, you will be convicted if you go down this track and you will lose you licence (disqualified) etc. Plus if the cells are busy you might have a long wait in a holding cell until "your number" comes up and you'll have your fingerprints and photograph taken.

On top of that, you may also face an assessment from the doctor as to your capability to drive. If you do you'll likely find yourself facing two charges and the doctor's the one whose testimony in court will be considered expert, not yours.

But everyone knows the consequences, so drinking and driving is a mugs game...

Tahii

115 posts

Master Geek

#187600 5-Jan-2009 17:27

portege: So have a quick think about this - at 4am, you opt for the blood test and they take you into downtown police station, find you a QUALIFIED doctor in which you are legally allowed to ask for

Wrong. If you refuse to take a breath test, either at the roadside, or an evidential breath test, you are required to "agree to a blood test if asked by a police officer, medical doctor or other approved person." (see http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-limits/alcohol-and-drugs-limits.html).

Also, there's nothing stopping them whipping you down to A and E, because by that stage you are required "to go with the police officer" (see same page as above).

Dratsab

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#187607 5-Jan-2009 18:03

@ Tahii: Not quite. A person is simply required - you can't require them to agree.

garvani

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#187984 7-Jan-2009 12:08

A while ago on one of those police ten7 type programs there was this guy who managed to get his car stuck at the beach as the tide was coming in, he then celebrated the "sinking" of the ship by consuming all the beer he had in the car at the time.. the police then arrived a few hours later and proceeded to breath test him which of course he failed. i found this to be rather stupid and it impossible for them to know if he had been drinking before the said accident (lets face it he probably was demolished, hence getting the car stuck). There was another episode just last week where some tool had done the same thing! his mate and him were consuming beer as the police and cameras rolled up onto the scene, he however passed the breath test, i was shocked, i thought he was done forsure.. :)

JoeRandom

43 posts

Geek

#189182 13-Jan-2009 12:46

A few years ago (approx 3) i was driveing home at like 23:15 and some morron (drunk and with his lights off) almost crashed into me turning rigrt onto the wrong lane (the one I was in) of a main road forcing me to take evaciv action and drive ont the grass.After this i did a quick "U" "n" turn and grabed my phone and called *555 told them what was going on, I followed him for about 1.5km till he got home he then procided to revirce over a weeliebin then drive into his driveway. After a few min's te police turned up and told me that there wasent much that thay could do about it unless someone in the house admited to driving and was over the limit, but as he fineshed saying that the driver came out the door and tripped over two fences and into the car park were i was talking to the offacer then reconed that i might need sorting out ( my car was idleing very loudly ) then when he threntend to "hit me with a jab or two" (not so smart when there is a cop 1.25m away from you and you cant evin stand up very well) he promptly got arested.

paradoxsm

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#189193 13-Jan-2009 13:16

and just be warned people, if you get visited by the people from Kirby (the vacuum cleaner place), the sales staff are very pushy, persistant and actually quite rude.

We've had two lots of them now, and they tried every trick in the book to get us to buy one. In fact, they were at our house for 3 hours before we asked them to leave. THey really don't like the word/answer; "No"

Yeah..... whatever! ha ha ha..

With getting breath/blood tested in your house, it would be a grey area, They are allowed to breath test you but it would be frowned upon by the courts if they made any delay in obtaining the reading.

In 14 years driving, I have never been pulled over or questioned by the police once and I'm not a Nana driver by any means, just sensible and safe.

Also I am told: Anyone can come to your front door unless otherwise notified by clear signage, notification in writing or are have been trespassed. Of course you can always just have a locked gate.

We had placed a "no Hawkers or salespeople" sign on the Auckland house we had after spotting (and of course photographing ;-) that van pictured above scouring the neighbourhood.

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