Rort - complying with electrical standards

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webwat

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#336401 30-May-2010 22:07

ageorge: Some good has come out of this saga. I spoke to the supplier in China who will provide CE approved NZ plug chargers at no extra cost. This is a USB mains charger. Since the majority of their phones sensibly charge using the USB lead, then its a good solution to a sticky problem.

Incidentally Ive discovered that the majority of China mobile sellers on Trademe sell with US plugs (illegal) + NZ adaptors (also illegal, as not approved).

When these phones arrive in 2 weeks I will do a review on them. Already have done this for another product I import which is a solder/rework station.
See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p505Oj17z0U

Good to see someone bringing in more IP phones so we can have a better choice here in NZ. I would recommend importing PoE phones as well, which you can target to customers that want communications to stay up through any power cut. Thats mostly the corporate market where networks are powered by UPS and users want extra features, addons etc.

I agree that prices for electrical standards are a real barrier to new business, although regulations are free (as opposed to standards). NZSA is a self funding body, hence the prices.

Time to find a new industry!

richms

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#336434 31-May-2010 03:04

about the adapters you have managed to get them to supply - CE approved means nothing as that doesn't cover the plug, and it means nothing without paperwork to back it up.

Chinese people seem to think that NZ/AU has the same plug as them, but they don't.

Chances are you will get one of the non AS/NZS3112 complaint pieces of crap like

which trademe seem to have little interest in pulling as they seem to think it complies becuse it will fit in the hole.

"be use only at home" - kinda says it all there.

Well at least that one ends up with the plug facing down, since most it ends up facing up since chinese plugs are the other way up to AU/NZ normal installations.

Now last I asked it was legal to sell used electrical items with a foreign plug in NZ, trademe seem to think that it is not, I know there is a grey area since second hand dealers are required to make sure that things comply and are safe (think the sallies and st vincent de paul needing to do test and tag) so I expect they are verging on the safe side with restricting all foreign plug sales. Really has screwed the de walt import guys over with the 110v chargers now having to fly under the radar.

To get the specs, you just need to ask someone who is a tertiary student. They will be able to log onto the library site of their place of study and get all that stuff in PDFs with some of that DRM minor hurdle to using it on it. Printing worked when I needed it. Am suprised they are not up on all the p2p networks etc now.

But the standards are long, boring and give you a whole load of test that things need to pass. Then you need to get things that have passed the test and since you are not paying for the testing, having the standards is really immaterial.

EMC stuff is a whole nother minefield. C ticks are forged just as much as CE marks are, so just having that is worthless on things. Again the standards are worthless to you as you lack the technology and knowledge to do the testing, what you need is the certification that the stuff complies from someone that can do it and has the paperwork to backup that they really did the testing, and the results were good, their gear was calibrated etc.

IMO the only plugs that should be allowable to be sold here with a proper adapter is the 2 pin european one, and since proper adapters for those are large and usually cost more than a wall wart does I dont think that many people would take that offer up.

The US plug is so unsafe its not funny. I dont even like them when carrying 110v, undersized face, unshiethed pins, contact made when the plug is barely into the outlet (worse on the grey travel adapters) - my fat fingers can touch and get a shock off them, a kid would be so easily able to do it. AS/NZS sockets have a prescribed depth that they connect at or turn on, which means that the sheathed plugs have no contact showing when they become live.

Best adapters are the ones that have a folding US plug on it and then a compliant AS/NZS plug slips over the end of the adapter IMO - But it has to latch or screw on to be compliant according to one place I asked about supplying AC adapters - but that may have been because the other supplier on alibaba of them didnt have the latching part.

I don't _think_ there are any MEPS for wallwarts in NZ yet, EU or the US has them which has eliminated transformer based ones for DC loads, that is another trap if it comes to it since that's another lot of paperwork that you need. The mark on the case of the adapters means nothing. I could get the presidential seal and

Richard rich.ms

richms

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#336435 31-May-2010 03:09

webwat:

I agree that prices for electrical standards are a real barrier to new business, although regulations are free (as opposed to standards). NZSA is a self funding body, hence the prices.

If you cant do the tests, then having details of them isnt really that helpful since all you can determine is that you need to get tests done. Sure you can measure the things and check that they are ok there, but the insertion force, removal force, drop test etc are all things that need calibrated equipment.

Richard rich.ms

Antzzz

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#336807 31-May-2010 22:04

Generally, unless the manufacturer of the goods has done no compliance testing at all it shouldn't be necessary to do your own testing unless the manufacturer is building something totally unique just for you. As noted in my post it is simply (!) a matter of researching what compliance is needed and then asking the manufacturer for the test certificates and reports. If they want to sell to you then they'll do it.

As the NZ standards are very similar, and in most cases identical to the European (IEC) standards there is no need for the manufacturer to test specifically for the NZ market. So as long as they sell to other countries it is fairly likely they will have done all the tests needed, so compliance is just a paperwork exercise. Also China does actually have some compliance requirements, and generally their standards are derived from IEC as well.

The only real difference for the NZ (and Australian) market is the requirements for insulators on part of the power pins where they go into the wall - this is what sets our plugs apart from the Chinese ones. China for some weird reason uses the same plug design as us, but upside down (earth pin on the top which is actually better than our design!). But our standards call for partly insulated pins to stop you getting zapped if your fingers are near the pins when you plug it in.

As for how much you can trust the certificates and reports they produce - that's a judgement call... Comes down to your relationship with the supplier.

MEPs - I forgot to mention that. As of mid this year (can't recall the exact date, is on the EECA website) MEPs for power supplies (referred to as EPS - external power supplies) becomes mandatory. Basically the EPS has to meet level 4 or better - look for the legend 'IV' or 'V' (if it meets level 5) on the PSU. This is currently mandatory in Aussie, and is equivalent to the Energy Star ratings in the USA. Most Chinese manufacturers are meeting or preparing to meet this requirement if they also sell into other markets.

Again I'll reiterate, if you put in the time and do your research compliance isn't that hard, and if you don't have the time or the patience for it, paying someone to do it for you will be much cheaper in the long run than if MED or an insurance company come after you with a big stick...

Antzzz

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#336814 31-May-2010 22:15

richms:

EMC stuff is a whole nother minefield. C ticks are forged just as much as CE marks are, so just having that is worthless on things. Again the standards are worthless to you as you lack the technology and knowledge to do the testing, what you need is the certification that the stuff complies from someone that can do it and has the paperwork to backup that they really did the testing, and the results were good, their gear was calibrated etc.

Yuck, that's a scary-ass power pack - looks like it is designed for the Chinese market only (note the CCC label). Anything for the international market should have about a bazillion different regulatory marks on it. Run away if it doesn't... And repeat after me - the 'CE' logo is only the first of many marks/tests required...

Re C-ticks - that can only be applied in conjunction with a NZ (or Australian) registered company compliance number (look for zXXXX or nXXXX where XXXX is a 3 or 4 digit number). As noted in my earlier post the NZ (or Aussie) distributor has to apply for this, and you are putting your a$$ on the line if you apply the mark. If it has a C-tick and no z or n number run away...

richms

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#336871 1-Jun-2010 01:54

Oh the mark is there on the fake HP power bricks I have seen around. I think they have just tried to copy the label verbatim but stuffed up with some of the typos etc.

MEPS is something I hate the idea of, its bad enough that places have to put those damn star stickers on whiteware. Damn meddling govt.

Richard rich.ms

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