Paying GST on your council rates bill

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wreck90

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#503596 8-Aug-2011 22:29

It GST is removed from council rates, where should the government collect the lost revenue? When you taketh someone else must giveth.

More importantly in my mind, is why do councils waste so much ratepayer money?

eg, Bay of plenty council members and other hangers-on accompanied a fellow ex-employee who changed jobs to environment christchurch, to help 'welcome' them to the new job. This cost the Bay of Plenty ratepayers over $7000 for no other benefit than for those getting a free lunch in christchurch.

oxnsox

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#503760 9-Aug-2011 11:30

fab: I brought an RV in from the US, had to pay 7% Duty on it - that included the purchase price, shipping cost, shipping insurance and US port levies (!). Ended up being triple what I paid for it (which I had budgeted for, but still annoyed about).

But then I had to pay GST on all of that, including the Duty! Fair?..i think not. But if you want it off the wharf, you have to pay.

Of course it's fair because everyone has to pay it (depending on the value of the imported item).
And that is both the biggest benefit and biggest gripe of our GST system.
Applying it as a fixed amount across the board make it simple to administer, meaning less people trying to figure out ways to not pay it, so it is a reliable revenue stream with minimal compliance costs (for the government).
Once you start allowing for exemptions a whole new industry of people and products will spring up whose sole aim is to not pay it, and therefore reduce the revenue... and when that happens the Government (who ever they may be) have to get the money from somewhere else.

Interestingly this post was started by someone saying that in the UK they didn't pay GST (or tax) on their rates. In the UK (when I lived there) 'rates' as we know them, were actually called 'Council Tax'.

stevenz

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#503786 9-Aug-2011 12:53

Seeing as rates is largely an invoice for "services rendered", has anyone ever tried getting an itemised account out of them? What's to stop them simply charging whatever they feel like?

@KnightNZ

Ragnor

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#503808 9-Aug-2011 13:17

Something like this but for rates would be interesting... can be done "roughly" from council budget info

http://tax.southgatelabs.com/

wreck90

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#503833 9-Aug-2011 13:32

stevenz: Seeing as rates is largely an invoice for "services rendered", has anyone ever tried getting an itemised account out of them? What's to stop them simply charging whatever they feel like?

Ummm, the ratepayers can vote them out.

You could say the same about government taxes.

wreck90

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#503891 9-Aug-2011 14:40

fab: I brought an RV in from the US, had to pay 7% Duty on it - that included the purchase price, shipping cost, shipping insurance and US port levies (!). Ended up being triple what I paid for it (which I had budgeted for, but still annoyed about).

But then I had to pay GST on all of that, including the Duty! Fair?..i think not. But if you want it off the wharf, you have to pay.

Did you end up saving much money on the NZ prices?

Do you need to convert to Left hand drive?

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Lizard1977

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#504194 10-Aug-2011 09:33

stevenz: Seeing as rates is largely an invoice for "services rendered", has anyone ever tried getting an itemised account out of them? What's to stop them simply charging whatever they feel like?

Most Councils do provide this. It's usually in the Annual Plan/Long Term Plan. It shows the average cost per ratepayer (using an "average" ratepayer as the baseline) per week, for the different activities the Council undertakes. These activities will probably be at a reasonably high level (so, for example, it will show the cost of providing the parks and recreation activity, but not the individual cost for mowing parks). Here's an example from the PNCC 2009-19 LTCCP which shows this breakdown (pages 31-33). http://www.pncc.govt.nz/content/67313/LTCCP%20P1%20Section1.pdf

rphenix

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#504528 10-Aug-2011 17:01

UncleArk: Presumably if you don't own a property (and you are an adult!) then you are renting or leasing and the landlord is recovering rates money from you in that manner for the property concerned.

There are Council refuse stations where you can take (in some cities) your garden rubbish free of charge - and your general rubbish at a nominal fee.

Not sure what council that is, but in Auckland you get the big shaft for any refuse disposal. Garden waste in particular annoys me because it could quite easily be turned into compost and sold back i.e. do what they do in Hamilton. Which is operate a garden rubbish recycling centre, that you can dump your garden waste free of charge last time I was there as long as you buy some of their composted products or otherwise dump for next to nothing.

Linuxluver

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#505182 11-Aug-2011 20:21

Ragnor: Well rates are compulsory for land owners and you pay for services you might not even use, that's a tax in my book.

My monthly Internet sub to Orcon is compulsory if I want an Internet connection through them....and I don't even use all my data quota.

It helps to think of rates as sharing the cost of running the community we live in. We all chip in...and rating the property of land owners is the traditional way to do it.

In the UK they tried to introduce a poll tax - which really is a tax - so that everyone paid toward their community whether they owned land or not. There was a huge furore over it....so land remains the way communities raise money in most places.

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Linuxluver

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#505183 11-Aug-2011 20:22

rphenix:
UncleArk: Presumably if you don't own a property (and you are an adult!) then you are renting or leasing and the landlord is recovering rates money from you in that manner for the property concerned.

There are Council refuse stations where you can take (in some cities) your garden rubbish free of charge - and your general rubbish at a nominal fee.

Not sure what council that is, but in Auckland you get the big shaft for any refuse disposal. Garden waste in particular annoys me because it could quite easily be turned into compost and sold back i.e. do what they do in Hamilton. Which is operate a garden rubbish recycling centre, that you can dump your garden waste free of charge last time I was there as long as you buy some of their composted products or otherwise dump for next to nothing.

I compost my own garden waste.

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rphenix

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#505248 11-Aug-2011 22:09

Linuxluver:

I compost my own garden waste.

Me too but there's certain stuff I cant get to break down easily in the home made variety e.g. thick branches etc. Other stuff I don't want to put in it like oxalis because it doesn't get hot enough to be 100% sure it will kill the germination in a home compost.

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