Smart power meters.

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#537509 25-Oct-2011 23:37

richms:
Its my data, I have no choice that it is collected...

I think you would find it a long road to prove that it was your data.

Just as in the same way big retailers (as many do) maintain data regarding their customer's purchases (of course they all sell that on to their felon mates

). Even small retailers will make a point of remember their frequent customers' buying habits (so data stored in their heads) and that is their data not yours. And so your local dairy owner probably phones his felon mates when you are in his shop buying your saturday newspaper too letting them know you are out

.

I can imagine the legislation you would seem to want as being along the lines of "Retailers must not know what, how often, when and in what quantities they sell products to any customer". Could make a nice Monty Pythonesque script of a customer buying something and the retailer not being allowed to know what it was, how many, whether the customer was there or not nor store in his mind or anywhere else any of that information. Pr bably trickier than selling Monty Python parrots

.
Is it true that most geeks are paranoid and conspiracy theorists

richms

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#537576 26-Oct-2011 09:40

Ok, its data on me regardless so should have all the protections that other data on me does under the privacy act. Better?

Richard rich.ms

John2010

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#537662 26-Oct-2011 11:44

richms: Ok, its data on me regardless so should have all the protections that other data on me does under the privacy act. Better?

Yes I agree

. Also my comments have been limited to data gathered at the point of supply and on the supplier's side of that - an entirely new ball game when it gets to gathering data from specific energy consumers within the household.

An example of the latter exists now even with non smart meters, of course, in that many (most?) homes have multiple meters allowing for different tariffs (e.g. controlled for heating/hot water and uncontrolled) and there one does have the option of accepting an uncontrolled but higher tariff for everything so only gross consumption data is available to the supplier should one not wish them to have the detail.

I seem to recall though that ripple controlled meters and their use for water heating was at one time back in the bad old government monopoly days mandatory and so data detailing in house consumption breakout was available to the government. Given the threat 4 or 5 years ago that we all were going to have to take slow water flow showers by government mandate (like in Australia) I would not be surprised if sometime in the future mandatory control of energy consumers in ones household may return given a similarly control freaky government being in power (Mmm, unexpected pun?).

CADMAX

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#537675 26-Oct-2011 12:09

We "had" a smart meter installed....... it only took them 8 weeks to work out that we dont have call coverage and it could not send the data it needed to, then they wanted to bill us for a new meter... WTF?

so in my view not to smart for a smart meter....

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keewee01

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#549077 23-Nov-2011 21:40

OMG - just got my first bill on the new meter and it was over $400!!!!!!!!! WTF!?

I don't think I've ever had an Oct/Nov bill even remotely close to that. I am going to have to do some more digging as it looks like they have a huge amount of units on the old meter and a similar number on the new meter (but my previous bill was an actual, not an estimate) and we've been on the new meter for a 2-days short of a month now, so sometime isn't right.

SteveON

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#549101 23-Nov-2011 22:09

keewee01: OMG - just got my first bill on the new meter and it was over $400!!!!!!!!! WTF!?

I don't think I've ever had an Oct/Nov bill even remotely close to that. I am going to have to do some more digging as it looks like they have a huge amount of units on the old meter and a similar number on the new meter (but my previous bill was an actual, not an estimate) and we've been on the new meter for a 2-days short of a month now, so sometime isn't right.

Your bill is probably high because your old meter was running slow. Other reason is that you are using more power during peak times than needed.

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codyc1515

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#549103 23-Nov-2011 22:10

SteveON:
keewee01: OMG - just got my first bill on the new meter and it was over $400!!!!!!!!! WTF!?

I don't think I've ever had an Oct/Nov bill even remotely close to that. I am going to have to do some more digging as it looks like they have a huge amount of units on the old meter and a similar number on the new meter (but my previous bill was an actual, not an estimate) and we've been on the new meter for a 2-days short of a month now, so sometime isn't right.

Your bill is probably high because your old meter was running slow. Other reason is that you are using more power during peak times than needed.

and, quite possibly, the power from running the meter.

rphenix

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#549202 24-Nov-2011 08:59

There was something awhile ago, about power meters being used by companies, to then charge more accurately so you pay more for peak power use etc.. meaning much much larger bills cant remember the exact details.

there should be one power meter as standard in NZ not every power company providing their own solution, and the home owner should get to access to all of the data, as that was the original promise of "smart meters" before they were "dumbed down".

richms

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#549220 24-Nov-2011 09:34

No time of use on smartmeters beyond the current night tarrifs... yet. Hopefully this will happen sometime tho.

The power to run the meter isnt an issue. they are all calibrated and dont drift, unlike the old meters.

Accept that your free ride is over and that others are not subsidizing your usage anymore

Richard rich.ms

jonherries

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#549224 24-Nov-2011 09:40

I was there when the installer was doing his thing, he mentioned answers to a couple of questions you all have brought up

Note: I couldn't independently verify his answers, so he may have been under instruction to directly lie to me, or he could have just been making it up.

1. The power meter has a signal display on the lcd, he checked it before and after he installed to ensure the data could get out.
2. Uses vodafones gprs network as telecoms and Vodafones 3G are too expensive
3. The power it uses isn't included in the count of the power delivered (it's load is before the board).
4. There was an optional zigbee module which could be installed, but no one can tell me where I can get one, to connect to my own webserver to audit the measurements from the Power Company.

5. It is capable of multiple tarrifs, and therefore could be used to bill you more at peak times and less in the middle of the night when you are playing games.

That being said, Powershop seem like pretty good chaps with great customer service. I am surprised more geekzoners aren't with them.

Jon

Edit: add 3g

timmmay

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#549228 24-Nov-2011 09:42

jonherries: That being said, Powershop seem like pretty good chaps with great customer service. I am surprised more geekzoners aren't with them.

I thought about it, but I don't want to actively manage my power. Meridian were cheaper for me on the default tariff. Meridian made a mistake setting me up, they didn't bill me for almost three months before I realised, so my first bill was a whopper.

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#549229 24-Nov-2011 09:45

richms: Accept that your free ride is over and that others are not subsidizing your usage anymore

The post you are responding to indicates there may be a simple billing error in this case. Many meters being replaced are not that old.

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nickb800

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#549235 24-Nov-2011 09:56

jonherries:
4. There was an optional zigbee module which could be installed, but no one can tell me where I can get one, to connect to my own webserver to audit the measurements from the Power Company.

Im not sure about a plug and play solution, but i do know there are a few schematics out there, particularly on instructables, that simply place a light sensor in front of the 'pulse' LED on the meter and send that back to an arduino or similar to measure usage, fairly accurately.

gzt

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#549239 24-Nov-2011 09:59

jonherries: 4. There was an optional zigbee module which could be installed, but no one can tell me where I can get one, to connect to my own webserver to audit the measurements from the Power Company.

The Current Cost energy monitoring system has an optional module (Optismart) to read the simple pulse output from smart meters. It is not yet available from the NZ distributor, but no reason you could not buy one from Amazon UK.

Not all meters provide an accessible output so it might be a bit of work to figure out compatibility, but there is a list of compatible and not-compatible meters to start with:

http://www.currentcost.com/product-optismart.html

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wongtop

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#549268 24-Nov-2011 10:46

keewee01: OMG - just got my first bill on the new meter and it was over $400!!!!!!!!! WTF!?

I don't think I've ever had an Oct/Nov bill even remotely close to that. I am going to have to do some more digging as it looks like they have a huge amount of units on the old meter and a similar number on the new meter (but my previous bill was an actual, not an estimate) and we've been on the new meter for a 2-days short of a month now, so sometime isn't right.

If you are really concerned about your meter accuracy you could do a rough check;

1. Most smart meter displays roll through several readings (date, time, counter, etc). One of these is sometimes the instant power (kW) being consumed. See if you can find this.

2. Once you have found this switch everything in your house off at the wall (TVs, fridges, microwaves, computers, hot water cylinder). The instant kW reading should go down to almost zero (less than 0.1 kW) unless you have left something on.

3. The largest power consumption from a plug in appliance is 2.4 kW. Most fan heaters, large oil column heaters, and even some kettles are rated at this. Turn one of these on (everything else should still be switched off). If the instant power reading on the meter now reads more than 10% higher than this (2.6 kW or higher) then maybe there might be a problem with the setup of your meter. Maybe you could buy/borrow one of those plug in power monitors to see what your "test" appliance actually does consume and whether this agrees with your meter.

4. Have fun resetting all the clocks on your microwave, oven, etc

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