Name and Shame - is it a good idea?

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#585877 23-Feb-2012 18:28

Is the person listed or can be listed on one of these services?

http://www.nocowboys.co.nz/
http://builderscrack.co.nz
http://www.traderate.co.nz/

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#585903 23-Feb-2012 18:57

I really feel for you dude, sorry for your troubles.

If they are in liquidation, they don't have any money to sue you.

Not sure what I would do, but at the least I would find some review sites and let rip in a very factual manner :)

mattwnz

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#585934 23-Feb-2012 20:10

With walls, the insulation is usually in direct contact with the building paper, so not sure why it would be different for the roof. Building paper is vapour permeable anyway, so the condensation wouldn't get sealed in. I can see the lodgic though with having a cavity gap, but I would say that there would be many roofs built that way, without any problems, although I can't really judge unless I actually saw it.
Normally there is a cavity created with the roofing battens. Interesting to know how a building inspector picked up that problem , as they are usually only visual inspections, and you have to remove the roof to see that sort of problem with a skillion roof, I would have thought. Sorry to hear that you are having those troubles though.

geek4me

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#585950 23-Feb-2012 20:26

gzt: Is the person listed or can be listed on one of these services?

http://www.nocowboys.co.nz/
http://builderscrack.co.nz
http://www.traderate.co.nz/

They're not listed on these sites. If I did list (name and shame) them would that not risk defamation as freitasm mentioned? Also with the company liquidated and the contractor's company also Struck Off (as I have since discovered) I suspect it is not worth the stress as I have no chance of seeing any compensation.

It does not stop the contractor starting again and hurting others - that's what I find so sad about the whole affair.

MikeSkyrme

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#585957 23-Feb-2012 20:46

geek4me:
gzt: Is the person listed or can be listed on one of these services?

http://www.nocowboys.co.nz/
http://builderscrack.co.nz
http://www.traderate.co.nz/

They're not listed on these sites. If I did list (name and shame) them would that not risk defamation as freitasm mentioned? Also with the company liquidated and the contractor's company also Struck Off (as I have since discovered) I suspect it is not worth the stress as I have no chance of seeing any compensation.

It does not stop the contractor starting again and hurting others - that's what I find so sad about the whole affair.

Freitasm is correct that court action may be taken against you for defamation, however, as I interpret it, if the statement made is true, that would be an acceptable defence.

I am not a lawyer though, so would seek clarification from an expert.

The nocowboys site will only use authenticated references. If you have a gripe, send them an email and see what they think.

Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

oxnsox

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#585992 23-Feb-2012 22:27

freitasm: Defamation laws in New Zealand are quite strict... Even if what you say is true, you can still be taken to court.

That surprises me.
I'd thought that if one was repeating overheard conversation that was the case. I did not realise that it was applied to the affected parties.

freitasm

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#585993 23-Feb-2012 22:32

Have a good read here...

If you post their name here on Geekzone I will take it out, because even the publisher can be taken to court. This is not the US, there's no safe harbour for publishers - and even less for the person posting.

I am surprised those other sites are still up and running after all this time. They haven't found someone with will to take them.

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geek4me

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#585999 23-Feb-2012 22:49

The article above is very interesting. It seems to make a distinction between individuals and companies.

"Can corporations sue?

Companies and other corporate bodies can sue for defamation, but only if they can show that it has caused them (or is likely to cause them) financial loss."

Defame a person - beware! Name a company that is in liquidation - how could it cause them financial loss?

mattwnz

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#586025 23-Feb-2012 23:50

geek4me: The article above is very interesting. It seems to make a distinction between individuals and companies.

"Can corporations sue?

Companies and other corporate bodies can sue for defamation, but only if they can show that it has caused them (or is likely to cause them) financial loss."

Defame a person - beware! Name a company that is in liquidation - how could it cause them financial loss?

I presume the liquidator could do something. But the only winners will be the lawyers.

tedzart

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#586039 24-Feb-2012 05:04

Defamation does not come about by telling the truth.
I would give them a review and name them at the "no cowboys" site.
Unaccountability continues to occur when those affected keep their heads in the sand :]

kiwitrc

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#586041 24-Feb-2012 06:12

I dont know how a cathedral ceiling can be built without having bugger all air gap. Typically the purlins are 75mm, and roof batts are about 130mm for the R2.5 or 70mm for R2. Maybe when they changed the regs they changed the purlin size?

SCUBADOO

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#586051 24-Feb-2012 07:38

keewee01: We had a similar situation in Ashburton with a dodgy plumbing firm. (Take note if you live in Ashburton as to who you use for plumbing work!!!)...

Would it be ethical to name the good ones?

We could work out the rest.

crackrdbycracku

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#586132 24-Feb-2012 10:24

I'm curious.

How does defamation law relate to internet reviews?

There are plenty of negative reviews on sites like PriceSpy, some very negative.

Is it that they only name companies and not individuals?

Would it make a difference if the review said "Company X owned by person Y"?

Didn't anybody tell you I was a hacker?

geek4me

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#586331 24-Feb-2012 16:16

crackrdbycracku: I'm curious.

How does defamation law relate to internet reviews?

There are plenty of negative reviews on sites like PriceSpy, some very negative.

Is it that they only name companies and not individuals?

Would it make a difference if the review said "Company X owned by person Y"?

If they review Company X one can always find out who owns the company by searching the NZ Companies Office online database which shows the registered owners/share holders. If it's a big corporate like our Telcos then if you criticise the company by name it does not point to a particular person.

If however you criticise a very small company it's quite likely to be the one of the few shareholders that is responsible.

If you criticise a company by name (like on PriceSpy) and not a person is that okay I wonder?

MikeSkyrme

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#586344 24-Feb-2012 16:39

freitasm: Have a good read here...

If you post their name here on Geekzone I will take it out, because even the publisher can be taken to court. This is not the US, there's no safe harbour for publishers - and even less for the person posting.

I am surprised those other sites are still up and running after all this time. They haven't found someone with will to take them.

Ok, understood...

However, the link you provided also references the defence of 'truth' i.e. if the statement is factual, and can be proven to be factual, there is no defamation.

On another note, do all of the posts in the forums that highlight incompetent behaviour of certain companies run the risk of a defamation case being raised?

Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

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