Cyclists riding on footpaths - have you nearly hit one?

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#638670 10-Jun-2012 22:40

raytaylor: I have a narrow driveway?- the neighbours built tall fences on both sides
So i back into the driveway, so i am driving forward and can easily see in front of me when i am leaving onto the road.

The problem there could be that your bonnet goes onto the footpath before you can see down each side of the footpath. Although depends in the width of the driveway for your visibility.

jtbthatsme

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#638680 11-Jun-2012 00:21

Well I've hit someone on a cycle coming out of a shared access driveway both sides of the top of the road were blocked by tall neighbour fences.

The girl I hit was a missionary for one of the local Mormon churches. She was riding with a companion who had apparently told her she shouldn't be riding on the footpath. The young woman got a few cuts and bruises but nothing serious. I took them back inside the house to make sure that she was ok cleaned her cuts and gave them a drink to help calm her nerves.

We at the time both agreed that she had been at fault (I felt terrible about hitting her as all I could think of was how it could have been a lot worse.

I found out about a week later that apparently it had been discussed with the church about laying a complaint and attempting to have me charged with careless driving resulting in injury sort of thing which really pissed me off as it was not my fault at all.

It is illegal under most circumstances for a cyclist to ride on the footpath plain and simple it's like riding your bike without a helmet. I do agree that it is safer for kids to ride on a footpath but they definitely need to be working towards being on the road and realistically if your kids are not competant enough to be on the road then you probably should be riding with them. People need to take responsibility for their own safety and if they're not old enough to do this competantly then that's where your roll as a parent takes that place.

surfisup1000

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#638681 11-Jun-2012 00:39

jtbthatsme:
It is illegal under most circumstances for a cyclist to ride on the footpath plain and simple it's like riding your bike without a helmet. I do agree that it is safer for kids to ride on a footpath but they definitely need to be working towards being on the road and realistically if your kids are not competant enough to be on the road then you probably should be riding with them. People need to take responsibility for their own safety and if they're not old enough to do this competantly then that's where your roll as a parent takes that place.

You don't have kids I assume.

raytaylor

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#638684 11-Jun-2012 01:33

I dont have kids but I agree.
I do have a much younger brother (7) and sister (8) and niece that lives with me (6)

They are not allowed to take their bikes out of the driveway unless they are going to school, and mom walks with them, or if they are going to a park with the bikes being loaded into the van. They are not allowed to ride up and down the street.

Kids shouldnt be out riding unsupervised on the footpath without a parent. In the later years of primary school kids do the police cycling course at school - all kids go thorough it around standard 4 - I think thats called Year 6 now. A member of the police comes to the school with a trailer of bikes and the kids are taught then assessed on how well they can ride on the road, looking at things behind them while riding forwards, basic road rules and how to indicate. Etc.
I remember doing it in primary school and part of the course was an afternoon ride around upper hutt through the CBD where we were even taught how to claim roadspace when at traffic lights and roundabouts.

Most kids also repeat the day course in Form 1 or 2.

There is no reason for a child beyond the age of 10 to be riding on the footpath.

Before they have done this course - a child shouldnt be out riding their bike on the footpath unless they are with a parent going at a slow speed. Eg. Biking to and from school with mom or dad walking beside.

Ray Taylor

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matisyahu

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#638686 11-Jun-2012 02:58

The kids do need to learn how to ride on the road but drivers need to realise that they aren't the centre of the universe and to actually FOCUS and CONCENTRATE on the road rather than using the phone, changing the radio channel, putting on make up, eating breakfast/lunch/dinner, texting, arguing with the significant other, day dreaming about something completely irrelevant to driving etc. Quite frankly I don't blame kids wanting to ride on the footpath given the number of drivers who aren't focused 100% on the task of driving.

Btw, to any drivers out there - there is this thing in your car called an indicator, how about USING it.

Edit: And when using a turn off on a motorway - how about gradually pealing off than speeding up, swerve in front of me (I'm on a scooter) then tooting your horn because apparently your right to get to your destination has higher priority of me actually staying alive.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

scuwp

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#638696 11-Jun-2012 08:07

Just to clarify the rule as many seem to have old ideas that are no longer valid. The rule states:

4.4Giving way when entering or exiting driveway

(1)A driver entering or exiting a driveway must give way to a road user on a footpath, cycle path, or shared path (as described by clause 11.1A(1)).

It doesn't say "pedestrian" or anything like that anymore. If you are pulling out of a driveway, you are responsible, end of story.

You have to remember there are even legitimate motorised users of the footpath now, eg delivery couriers are often permitted under local council rules.

As far as cyclists are concerned:

11.11Riding cycles on footpaths, etc

(1)A person must not ride a cycle on a footpath or on a lawn, garden, or other cultivation forming part of a road.
(2)Subclause (1) does not apply to a person who rides a cycle on a footpath in the course of delivering newspapers, mail, or printed material to letterboxes.

So again there are legitimate users riding cycles on a footpath.

If a cyclist that could be on the road is screaming down the footpath at a great rate of speed, AND you took all possible care, then you may have an argument, other than that if you back out and hit a 4 - 5 year old, shame on you.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Klipspringer

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#638713 11-Jun-2012 08:35

Dratsab:
I always try to back into driveways and spaces in parking lots. I go by the theory "park facing the direction you wish drive". It makes things safer for everyone, although it'll never get around cyclists travelling at speed on footpaths.

But you backing into the parking space before parking... Hows that different to backing out after parking? You still backing up half the time.

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crackrdbycracku

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#638738 11-Jun-2012 09:25

I rode to work for a while in Wellington but I'm not interested in doing it again.

If a bike and a car collide the car is going to get a dent, the person on the bike is probably going to hospital if they are lucky.

Why do kids and other people ride on the footpath? Because the road is even more dangerous. People who get around mostly by car simply don't realise how dangerous it is for other road users.

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bazzer

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#638744 11-Jun-2012 09:40

mattwnz:
plod: Not 100% correct on this, but since you are crossing over a footpath with your car to get to the road it is up to you to make sure the way is clear. If you have obstacles affecting your view, put up one of those mirrors you seen on some drives. A cyclist on the footpath even though technically illegal still has the right of way.?

Isn't that an oxymoron?

No, it's not.

jonb

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#638746 11-Jun-2012 09:45

jtbthatsme: Well I've hit someone on a cycle coming out of a shared access driveway both sides of the top of the road were blocked by tall neighbour fences.

The girl I hit was a missionary for one of the local Mormon churches. She was riding with a companion who had apparently told her she shouldn't be riding on the footpath. The young woman got a few cuts and bruises but nothing serious. I took them back inside the house to make sure that she was ok cleaned her cuts and gave them a drink to help calm her nerves.

We at the time both agreed that she had been at fault (I felt terrible about hitting her as all I could think of was how it could have been a lot worse.

I found out about a week later that apparently it had been discussed with the church about laying a complaint and attempting to have me charged with careless driving resulting in injury sort of thing which really pissed me off as it was not my fault at all.

It is illegal under most circumstances for a cyclist to ride on the footpath plain and simple it's like riding your bike without a helmet. I do agree that it is safer for kids to ride on a footpath but they definitely need to be working towards being on the road and realistically if your kids are not competant enough to be on the road then you probably should be riding with them. People need to take responsibility for their own safety and if they're not old enough to do this competantly then that's where your roll as a parent takes that place.

I commend you for helping so well after they crashed into / you crashed into them. You were still at fault though.

There should be no excuse for hitting anyone on a footpath when exiting a driveway. Even if there is no visibility until you clear the tall fences, you should stop before you reach the path, and then inch out until you're across the path which gives people and cyclists time to stop. Remember with tall fences they can't see you either.

Bung

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#638748 11-Jun-2012 09:50

kawaii:
Edit: And when using a turn off on a motorway - how about gradually pealing off than speeding up, swerve in front of me (I'm on a scooter) then tooting your horn because apparently your right to get to your destination has higher priority of me actually staying alive.

If you are on a true scooter, ie 50cc gutless wonder restricted to <50km/h and <2kW output, you aren't supposed to be on motorways.

keewee01

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#638751 11-Jun-2012 09:53

kawaii: The kids do need to learn how to ride on the road but drivers need to realise that they aren't the centre of the universe and to actually FOCUS and CONCENTRATE on the road rather than using the phone, changing the radio channel, putting on make up, eating breakfast/lunch/dinner, texting, arguing with the significant other, day dreaming about something completely irrelevant to driving etc. Quite frankly I don't blame kids wanting to ride on the footpath given the number of drivers who aren't focused 100% on the task of driving.

Btw, to any drivers out there - there is this thing in your car called an indicator, how about USING it.

Edit: And when using a turn off on a motorway - how about gradually pealing off than speeding up, swerve in front of me (I'm on a scooter) then tooting your horn because apparently your right to get to your destination has higher priority of me actually staying alive.

(Firstly, I will say I'm not a cyclist (anymore) - I'd only ride my bike several times a year; I am a motorist)

Oh, I totally agree about drivers concentrating and using their indicators. I get the feeling that a large number of driver use their indicators to remind themselves of where they are heading, rather that to alert fellow road users of what their intentions are. People MUST remember that indicators are to inform others of your intentions!!!

But lets not forget that a sizable number of cyclist are to blame also. As mention previously, running red lights, riding with no hands, also failing to indicate their intentions!! (I do when I cycle - I feel like a prat doing so, but it is the law), no helmet, no lights attached to the bike at night - or worse is using stupid blinking LEDs and pointing them straight into the eyes of on coming motorists!!!! And as of last week - texting whilst cycling! Yep - saw and oncoming cyclist fiddling with something in hands and not watching road, and when I passed them, sure enough - they were texting!!

I think it is very fair to say that there are a huge number more cyclists out there flouting the road rules than there are motorists. I'd be lucky to see 50% of cyclists actually doing things correctly (helmet, off the footpath, 1 abreast unless no traffic, obeying road signs/lights; lights after dark, etc, etc). I am not against cyclist at all - I was one for many, many years - but it just seems that most cyclists out there now are now slack in their approach, and the police don't care about it!

Bung

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#638752 11-Jun-2012 09:56

jonb:
I commend you for helping so well after they crashed into / you crashed into them. You were still at fault though.

There should be no excuse for hitting anyone on a footpath when exiting a driveway. Even if there is no visibility until you clear the tall fences, you should stop before you reach the path, and then inch out until you're across the path which gives people and cyclists time to stop. Remember with tall fences they can't see you either.

jtbthatsme may have done that, how do you know that the cyclist wasn't talking to her companion and totally oblivious to any vehicle inching out of the driveway?

keewee01

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#638756 11-Jun-2012 10:01

scuwp: Just to clarify the rule as many seem to have old ideas that are no longer valid. The rule states:

4.4Giving way when entering or exiting driveway
(1)A driver entering or exiting a driveway must give way to a road user on a footpath, cycle path, or shared path (as described by clause 11.1A(1)).
It doesn't say "pedestrian" or anything like that anymore. If you are pulling out of a driveway, you are responsible, end of story.

You have to remember there are even legitimate motorised users of the footpath now, eg delivery couriers are often permitted under local council rules.

As far as cyclists are concerned:

11.11Riding cycles on footpaths, etc
(1)A person must not ride a cycle on a footpath or on a lawn, garden, or other cultivation forming part of a road.
(2)Subclause (1) does not apply to a person who rides a cycle on a footpath in the course of delivering newspapers, mail, or printed material to letterboxes.
So again there are legitimate users riding cycles on a footpath.

If a cyclist that could be on the road is screaming down the footpath at a great rate of speed, AND you took all possible care, then you may have an argument, other than that if you back out and hit a 4 - 5 year old, shame on you.

If you back out and hit a 4 or 5 year old, where were the parents and why where they not carrying out good parenting!??? A small child is often not even going to be seen over a low fence!

I live opposite a lower docile school and I have to say that most parents I see now just don't give a toss about their childs safety!! There was this particularly ignorant person who lived next door to us who really didn't care - 4 year old daughter would want to cross the road and got to the school on her ride on toy and the mother was no where to be seen! Daughter would cross the road when there were cars coming! More than once I had to go rescue this child when they got stuck in the gutter and there were cars around. In the end we report the mother to the police over her behavior and the children were removed from her.

keewee01

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#638758 11-Jun-2012 10:02

crackrdbycracku: I rode to work for a while in Wellington but I'm not interested in doing it again.

If a bike and a car collide the car is going to get a dent, the person on the bike is probably going to hospital if they are lucky.

Why do kids and other people ride on the footpath? Because the road is even more dangerous. People who get around mostly by car simply don't realise how dangerous it is for other road users.

Where there are greater numbers of cyclists, local councils should create cycleways along the main routes travelled to give those cyclists a safe passage. Our local council has done that and kudos to them for it!

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