Police not knowing the rules

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cisconz
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#713772 7-Nov-2012 20:12

bigal_nz:
cisconz:
jeffnz: Can calls and texts be sent if a driver is stuck in traffic?

If a driver is stuck in traffic due to the road ahead being blocked, for example because of an accident, they may use their mobile phone to make, send and receive calls and text messages. But this does not apply when drivers are stationary in the normal flow of traffic, such as approaching intersections, traffic lights or roadworks.

here!

seems op is right, I was wrong

Again he was using the camera - not calls or texts.

Read the law dude - it doesnt matter what he was doing with the phone - the law says hes not allowed to use it in any other way (i suspect that rather encompassing statement includes taking photos!)

Exactly, so the ticket is justified, read the whole thread before judging which side I am on

Hmmmm

tardtasticx

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#713775 7-Nov-2012 20:14

cisconz:
jeffnz: Can calls and texts be sent if a driver is stuck in traffic?

If a driver is stuck in traffic due to the road ahead being blocked, for example because of an accident, they may use their mobile phone to make, send and receive calls and text messages. But this does not apply when drivers are stationary in the normal flow of traffic, such as approaching intersections, traffic lights or roadworks.

here!

seems op is right, I was wrong

Again he was using the camera - not calls or texts.

Received a text. But the brief run down from the NZTA doesnt mention anything about banning the use of the camera function on phones, so its understandable that they would have cut it out of this summary too. Section 1f says: "use a mobile phone in a way other than a way described in any of paragraphs (a) to (e)." Meaning anything to do with the phone being in your hand is included in this.

bigal_nz

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#713778 7-Nov-2012 20:18

johnr: Well then accidents are part of everyday traffic

I am with johnr on this one. The "spirit" of that bit of legislation, particularly the bit about being in the flow of traffic, is aimed at allowing people to pull over to make phone calls while still in the drivers seat, but not aimed at people at traffic lights, or in heavy traffic (albeit traffic which may have stopped).

I would pay no attention to whats written on the nzta website - what counts here is the law not what nzta think or write. The judge will not care whats written on the nzta website, and further to that, traffic offences are strict liability offences.

Is it normal for heavy traffic to stop start? Yes.

Is it normal for traffic to stop start due to a accident? Yes.

Does that mean you can use your cellphone? Hell no.

Having said all that, I doubt you will receive the ticket.

-Al

tardtasticx

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#713779 7-Nov-2012 20:20

I was on the understanding that police aren't able to give false information? He very briefly said "expect a ticket in the mail", though he didn't specifically said "I'm giving you a ticket for using a mobile phone and driving", does that mean he will or may be sending one?

Dairyxox

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#713780 7-Nov-2012 20:20

I was thinking you should be okay (not guilty) when i first read your description of what happened.
After reading other people comments i wasn't so sure.

Recently I got pulled over and accused of speaking on my cellphone. I actually wasn't even using my cellphone at the time so as you can imagine I was quite surprised. I read up all about the ins and outs of using a cellphone in a car.

I got off the accusation by doing the following:

Go to police.govt.nz
Click on Contact Us
Underneath Speeding ticket or infringement notice, Click 'Email: Police Infringement Bureau'
Fill out the relevant details, including ticking the box 'request a court hearing' (If you don't want to just roll over and pay the fine)

In my case I briefly (two lines) explained what I was doing at the time, and notified them that i would provide evidence like my Vodafone call logs etc. to support my case.

After a couple of weeks, I got a letter saying they would drop the case.

I recomend you do the above, rather than writing to them by snail mail.

After reading the post above it seems pretty cut and dry that you weren't in fact in the flow of traffic, and from your photo it doesn't look like you could even pull over anywhere.

Another recommendation is that you get a hands free car kit cradle to support your phone, as it means the police will probably leave you alone.

bigal_nz

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#713782 7-Nov-2012 20:22

tardtasticx: I was on the understanding that police aren't able to give false information? He very briefly said "expect a ticket in the mail", though he didn't specifically said "I'm giving you a ticket for using a mobile phone and driving", does that mean he will or may be sending one?

Who knows if he will send it. He is telling to you expect a ticket. Will he remember when he gets back to the office? Who knows. Just hope he had a long day and forgets.

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tardtasticx

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#713785 7-Nov-2012 20:25

Dairyxox: I was thinking you should be okay (not guilty) when i first read your description of what happened.
After reading other people comments i wasn't so sure.

Recently I got pulled over and accused of speaking on my cellphone. I actually wasn't even using my cellphone at the time so as you can imagine I was quite surprised. I read up all about the ins and outs of using a cellphone in a car.

I got off the accusation by doing the following:

Go to police.govt.nz
Click on Contact Us
Underneath Speeding ticket or infringement notice, Click 'Email: Police Infringement Bureau'
Fill out the relevant details, including ticking the box 'request a court hearing' (If you don't want to just roll over and pay the fine)

In my case I briefly (two lines) explained what I was doing at the time, and notified them that i would provide evidence like my Vodafone call logs etc. to support my case.

After a couple of weeks, I got a letter saying they would drop the case.

I recomend you do the above, rather than writing to them by snail mail.

After reading the post above it seems pretty cut and dry that you weren't in fact in the flow of traffic, and from your photo it doesn't look like you could even pull over anywhere.

Another recommendation is that you get a hands free car kit cradle to support your phone, as it means the police will probably leave you alone.

Thanks for that, will probably do that, will be interesting to see what it says if it does come back. If he says something like "sending a text message" I can easily prove otherwise with my Telecom bill. And no I wasn't able to pull over anywhere, people were bumper to bumper trying to force us forward, we hadn't moved for atleast a minute after that image was taken, and probably 30 seconds before hand too. It was completely stopped for atleast 100meters behind me too. Guess we'll see then.

bigal_nz

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#713789 7-Nov-2012 20:31

After reading the post above it seems pretty cut and dry that you weren't in fact in the flow of traffic, and from your photo it doesn't look like you could even pull over anywhere.
.

He was in the flow of traffic, albeit a stationary flow. It is not cut n dry at all.

1080p

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#713791 7-Nov-2012 20:34

From the NZTA website:

"Can calls and texts be sent if a driver is stuck in traffic?

If a driver is stuck in traffic due to the road ahead being blocked, for example because of an accident, they may use their mobile phone to make, send and receive calls and text messages. But this does not apply when drivers are stationary in the normal flow of traffic, such as approaching intersections, traffic lights or roadworks."

So, OP was stuck in unmoving traffic caused by an accident of some type. It appears he should have no issues getting out of this ticket should it arrive.

The law may not specifically state anything about photographs but there is no real difference between sending an SMS message and taking a photo. I'd think the photo would take less time and attention if anything.

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#713815 7-Nov-2012 21:02

tardtasticx: But the brief run down from the NZTA doesnt mention anything about banning the use of the camera function on phones

This is the reason you shouldn't be treating the NZTA as a legal reference - refer 7.3A(1)(f) as per my previous post. The NZTA website is only a very general guide to help try and explain some of the ins and outs of legislation, hanging your hat on it will only cause you grief.

Dairyxox: After reading the post above it seems pretty cut and dry that you weren't in fact in the flow of traffic, and from your photo it doesn't look like you could even pull over anywhere.

A couple of things I see here:
1. there's no such thing as cut and dried
2. you've contradicted yourself - if there was nowhere for Sam to pull over then she (I believe this is the correct gender?) was "in" the flow of traffic

Like big_al says, the ticket has been mentioned but not received so there's no need to panic. I agree with him there's a possibility you'll never see a ticket, which is why I put "if" in capitals in my previous post.

EDIT: Corrected grammar

Dairyxox

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#713817 7-Nov-2012 21:03

1080p: From the NZTA website:

"Can calls and texts be sent if a driver is stuck in traffic?

If a driver is stuck in traffic due to the road ahead being blocked, for example because of an accident, they may use their mobile phone to make, send and receive calls and text messages. But this does not apply when drivers are stationary in the normal flow of traffic, such as approaching intersections, traffic lights or roadworks."

So, OP was stuck in unmoving traffic caused by an accident of some type. It appears he should have no issues getting out of this ticket should it arrive.

The law may not specifically state anything about photographs but there is no real difference between sending an SMS message and taking a photo. I'd think the photo would take less time and attention if anything.

+1 This.

Plus the police officer didn't even ask what the OP was doing. So it could have been simply reading a txt for all they know.

I guess it could still go either way, especially when the OP says he had to move up 30 secs later, that does sound like some kind of 'flow'. It might not be seen as such if they were waiting in the same spot for 5-20 minutes.

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nate

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#713819 7-Nov-2012 21:07

Dairyxox: Plus the police officer didn't even ask what the OP was doing. So it could have been simply reading a txt for all they know.

Considering the OP has posted in a public forum with the photo, I would say they would know now.

jpoc

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#713820 7-Nov-2012 21:07

I bet that the cop did know the rules but that he figured that you would not and that this was far too good an opportunity to miss to score another conviction to add to his tally.

Quite likely his shift commander had recently give the lads a reminder that it would be good to up the score for cellphone offences.

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#713821 7-Nov-2012 21:09

jpoc: I bet that the cop did know the rules but that he figured that you would not and that this was far too good an opportunity to miss to score another conviction to add to his tally.

Quite likely his shift commander had recently give the lads a reminder that it would be good to up the score for cellphone offences.

Do you base these comments on a dislike for police, sheer ignorance or a combination of both?

Dairyxox

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#713826 7-Nov-2012 21:15

Dratsab:
jpoc: I bet that the cop did know the rules but that he figured that you would not and that this was far too good an opportunity to miss to score another conviction to add to his tally.

Quite likely his shift commander had recently give the lads a reminder that it would be good to up the score for cellphone offences.

Do you base these comments on a dislike for police, sheer ignorance or a combination of both?

Its probably true. The cops do have quotas for infringements. The people in charge encourage their officers on the beat to meet their quotas.
In my case the officer openly told me "we're doing a sting on people speeding and talking on cell phones".

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