Careless Driving

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Mad Scientist
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#854914 13-Jul-2013 12:15

bigal_nz:
surfisup1000: Personally I think you are 50/50 in the wrong, because you didn't allow for the possibility of a bike or scooter or whatever coming through. The biker should also have been more careful as they should also be be aware of their low visibility and take additional care. Not sure how it works in law but this is how I view it in a fair world.

I tend to agree there was an offence committed by both parties here. A more reasonable outcome would have been:

(a) Both get tickets
(b) The party with the most culpability gets a ticket (not sure yet which party that would be)
(c) Everyone gets a warning?

there is the forum judges and there is the real world. put it this way. you are a mother pushing a pram and suddenly a big crash. a car was turning, a cyclist lying on the ground with big pitiful eyes. do you think the cyclist is going to get a fine?

Batman

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#854918 13-Jul-2013 12:20

Ratez: Thanks for that Running Man. I'll take this as a lesson. Ultimately he was right because he was passing stationary vehicles while I am in the wrong because I did not 'give way' to oncoming traffic. No point arguing on any circumstances :). At least now I will be more careful having experienced something like this.

welcome to life in the fast lane, the real world :D

things are never what they seem. my rule is - if there is any chance I am going to get a big hassle out of something - forget it (unless it was really worth the risk). be it buying a slightly cheaper online product (just visit a shop where you can get your money back unless there was a huge discount or you don't mind it dead in a few months), driving circumstances (regardless of what the law says it is easier not to have to see a lawyer), quarrel with wife/colleague (regardless of who is right - unless they are out to get you then it needs to stop one way or another), buying 6 year extended warranty for my washing machine/fridge ...

I like your attitude, you will get far in life if you keep learning like that :D

Batman

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#854921 13-Jul-2013 12:25

Phexx:
As a cyclist who commutes everyday by bike, this situation is very common. Whenever I filter on the left I do so with caution (reduced speed, covering brakes, extending my view around the corner). A good thing I remember is that if there is a gap in the traffic, there's usually a reason (as proved with the OP).

Whilst the motorcyclist was silly for filtering too fast and not being vigilant enough; the responsibility is ultimately up to you to make sure that the road ahead was clear. Given the circumstances, I think the fine was a bit harsh. However, it will hopefully be a lesson learned, both by the motorcyclist, and yourself.

I do drive walk and cycle a lot. when i'm a motorist I call pedestrians and cyclists idiots. when i'm a pedestrian motorists and cyclists are idiots. when i'm cycling ... you get it. we can't win ...

but when i'm cycling, it doesn't matter if I have the right of way, I don't want to visit the hospital A&E or worse, ICU. a entire day wasted. if weather's crap or frosty, there could be someone rear ending me - I don't cycle. i'd rather get drenched walking - what's wrong with that. but that's just me. yes, when i'm a cyclist everyone else is a complete idiot!

SpookyAwol

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#854960 13-Jul-2013 15:38

When you say you are being 'done for careless' - did he say you were going to court for it or not?
Its possible you were / are being given a careless warning, which means you wont appear in court.
That may be what was meant by the 'best' option as it saves you $150 fine as well....

Ratez

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#854979 13-Jul-2013 16:07

SpookyAwol: When you say you are being 'done for careless' - did he say you were going to court for it or not?
Its possible you were / are being given a careless warning, which means you wont appear in court.
That may be what was meant by the 'best' option as it saves you $150 fine as well....

No I don't think I am going to court for it. It may have just been a figure of speech that I was careless and failed to give way?

He did further say I am getting 1 warning + $150 fine. I will still try to contest the fine just by written letter but I won't be going to pursue a court hearing.

keewee01

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#854987 13-Jul-2013 16:34

Was the intersection one of those ones with the yellow hatched lines painted across it?...

Ratez

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#854992 13-Jul-2013 16:43

keewee01: Was the intersection one of those ones with the yellow hatched lines painted across it?...

He hit the side of me exactly after the bus stop yellow lines if that helps. The front half of my car was already in the drive way.

505 Pakuranga Road on google maps

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webwat

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#855202 14-Jul-2013 12:11

Ratez: So now my question is, is the biker illegal to be lane splitting on the left? Because im the only one getting booked :|.

I expect the motorcyclist would be illegal. A cyclist maybe not, but you would expect a cyclist would be allowed to undertake in stationary traffic as long as not too fast (eg under 20km/h).

You should get booked for failing to give way, thats what you did and should have been slow enough to avoid cyclists or pedestrians. I got booked for that once in a similar situation and fair enough, theres always a chance that a car will quite legally go around another car waiting for a righthand turn. If you cant see whats behind a car or van then thats where the other vehicle will be!

The motorbiker should get booked for undertaking and dangerous driving.

Time to find a new industry!

SpookyAwol

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#855270 14-Jul-2013 14:11

Hes undertaken 3 wide on a 2 lane road. Id be complaining.....

DravidDavid

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#855321 14-Jul-2013 15:58

If he was truly masked by the van and the van was complying with the speed limit, then the guy on the motorcycle would have been speeding. If they were both doing the same speed, the van would have smacked in to you as well.

I wouldn't accept the fine. Based on what I've read and that picture, I'd say the biker is firmly in the wrong. You need to be able to stop in the case that something is blocking the lane. You could argue he wasn't paying attention and that he was the one driving carelessly.

Ratez

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#855337 14-Jul-2013 16:24

DravidDavid: If he was truly masked by the van and the van was complying with the speed limit, then the guy on the motorcycle would have been speeding. If they were both doing the same speed, the van would have smacked in to you as well.

I wouldn't accept the fine. Based on what I've read and that picture, I'd say the biker is firmly in the wrong. You need to be able to stop in the case that something is blocking the lane. You could argue he wasn't paying attention and that he was the one driving carelessly.

The van and the car stopped for me. To be fair I was quite pressured which do explain the 'careless' part of my fine. The car stopped for ages while no one on the second lane stopped until the van, which was 10 seconds later. Although I did scan oncoming traffic as I crossed, I was still 'careless' to accept the courtesy of those who stopped for me.

What I really hate is the fact that the biker is allowed to undertake on the left because it was a traffic jam, however the cars behind were still slowing down to the traffic. So is it right if he undertakes while the cars are slowing down to near stationary? But as someone said before, people will be more compassionate to the biker. Just like how the van driver gave his card to the biker for insurance purposes but not me. I should have played the race card, just because I'm asian! Atleast he did stick up for me and say I couldn't have seen the biker I guess.

But as I said previously... no point arguing on circumstances. I'll just pay it and be more careful.

Ratez

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#855570 15-Jul-2013 00:49

RunningMan:
Ratez: So now my question is, is the biker illegal to be lane splitting on the left?

Here's the rule regarding passing on the left.
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/40.0/DLM303050.html

2.8Passing on left

(1) A driver must not pass or attempt to pass on the left of another vehicle moving in the same direction except in accordance with this clause.
(2) In any case in which the movement referred to subclause (1) may be made,—

(3) If the roadway is marked in lanes, the driver may make the movement referred in subclause (1) only if the driver's vehicle does not encroach on a lane that is unavailable to a driver.

I have a question out of curiosity, does this mean a motorcycle can only pass on the left if the lane is available? Wouldn't the van make the lane unavailable?

insane

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#855573 15-Jul-2013 01:48

That's an odd stretch of road, on the far side of the intersection it breaks into three lanes so if he was turning left down the road then he could well say that 3rd lane was available to him.

Mark

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#855613 15-Jul-2013 09:11

Hmmm .. speaking as a motorcyclist (about 15 years riding experience) ... if the situation played out as you described it and the bike was where you say he was, then the biker [removed] deserved the wake up call you gave him!

"Thou shalt not ride [removed] and undertake on the left whilst hidden from eyes to spring out at the last moment then get all upset when thou gets squashethed"

That said .. technically the lanes you were crossing were not clear.

He was filtering which is fine to do, but filtering to hide beside a van next to a left hand turn ... sttooooooppppppiiiiiddddddd!!!!

Also you are a brave man asking the same question on the Kiwi Biker forums ... [removed]

[Moderator edit (MF): removed swear words, user warned]

Ratez

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#855629 15-Jul-2013 09:30

Mark: Hmmm .. speaking as a motorcyclist (about 15 years riding experience) ... if the situation played out as you described it and the bike was where you say he was, then the biker [removed] deserved the wake up call you gave him!

"Thou shalt not ride [removed] and undertake on the left whilst hidden from eyes to spring out at the last moment then get all upset when thou gets squashethed"

That said .. technically the lanes you were crossing were not clear.

He was filtering which is fine to do, but filtering to hide beside a van next to a left hand turn ... sttooooooppppppiiiiiddddddd!!!!

Also you are a brave man asking the same question on the Kiwi Biker forums ... [removed]

No doubt! I didn't know if I should ask or not especially treading into enemy territory! But I am quite inclined to know when is it right or wrong or is this a grey area. I felt there is no harm in asking those who know first-hand.

The first thread I saw regarding lane splitting accident was on Kiwi Biker. The biker got fined along the lines of 'using an unavailable lane'. Although I hope he doesn't get fined as the pain from his hand is much worse, it does make me wonder when is it alright to lane filter to the left.

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