Are Harvey Norman ripping their customers off? Is this a case for the commerce commission

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#857795 17-Jul-2013 00:03

mattwnz:
ahmad:
trig42: The issue with Harvey Norman (and others) is that those 25% off sales, are 25% off basically their maximum price (or RRP). It's not that good a deal, as you will often find it selling lower everyday elsewhere - Briscoes is another culprit of this.

I think that is misleading.

For example, on this keyboard: http://www.jbhifi.co.nz/computers/accessories/logitech/k400-wireless-touch-keyboard-sku-31688/ and that is without them having 25% off Logitech.
Of course, this could be different to the K400r, they look the same.

Briscoes is the easy target in any discussion about discounting because their frequent and endless sales have become ingrained in our culture.

But it's not true to say that other places sell it "lower every day". The Briscoes RRPs (unlike HN as stevebiddle alluded to above) are genuine RRPs and if you walk along to Noel Leeming/Farmers/etc you WILL find these products on sale at those RRPs.

But have you ever thought that those retailers are following the same sort of pricing stratergy. eg Noel leemings rotes discount weekends. eg sometimes it's 20% of all whiteware, the next week it is 20% off all tvs etc. I was doing researching a product, and found that B's price was slightly higher than the NZ RRP listed on the manufacturers website. But do remember that RRPs are only suggustions, so retails can sell for above the RRP if they want. eg . manufacturers a forbidden to set prices.

But if you want to see everyday low prices, then go to Moore Wilsons in Wellington. Their prices tend to be around the same price that other retails sell the products for when they are on special.

I'm not saying I would ever buy a B product for the ticket price (I wouldn't) but they are doing nothing to break the law and NL/Farmers/Warehouse rotate the same discounts without most people blinking an eye.

mattwnz

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#857798 17-Jul-2013 00:09

I think a lot of people have twigged on that many of these chain retailers are now following the same sort of pricing model. It is one reason why most people now don't pay the full 'perceived' price.

insane

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#857806 17-Jul-2013 00:56

Many years ago I used to work for Dick Smith and every night after cashing up, or perhaps in the morning the pricing for the day was loaded into the POS.

Typically this resulted in discounts at the counter when not all tickets had been replaced before store opening. I've got no idea what systems HN have in place but DSE didn't seem to have the same problem, although there was the occasional incorrect price on the website which was always honoured in store.

One of the only things DSE did OK at.

Elpie

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#857808 17-Jul-2013 01:09

dickytim:
Elpie: I've never had this kind of thing happen with Harvey Norman but, then again, I don't pay the prices they ask either. Whether anything is "on sale" or not, I always, always approach a sales person and ask them for the best price they can do. They go check on the computer, I see the prices, we bargain and I walk out happy. I can never understand why people pick up and item and just go to the checkout.

I am normally the same, however on a $99 item I don't usually bother, let alone a $99 item with 25% off.

I bother ;) I was there last week buying a $99 item. It was on special for $79. I paid $49. Granted, I knew I would be able to get that price down because I already knew I could get the same item at Noel Leeming for $69. I wasted 30 minutes of time checking prices and negotiating but never paying the asking price has become a matter of principle to me ;) HN have never, ever refused to deal and they usually do so pretty quickly (which is why its one of my fave stores).

dickytim

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#858002 17-Jul-2013 13:03

I have just had a call from Harvey Norman and a good chat with the franchisee from Pukekohe.

He cleared up a few of my concerns.

The generally do have loaded in their system company wide promotional prices, however sometime these are missed for one reason or another.

The stores have the ability to run their own promos, which can lead to issues as these are not run with head office so the POS systems are not updated.

Usually there is other ways to indicate the discounted prices to the counter staff, but there, as with anything can be errors.

Hanlon's Razor - (paraphrased) never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity!

They have also offered to make things right with the error in calculating the discount on the keyboard.

Toledo

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#861729 18-Jul-2013 16:26

I made a complaint recently to New World about this recently... Im sick of spending time shopping in supermarkets for products that have a good price on the shelf to find out later when looking at the invoice that I was charged normal price. When your buying 50 odd items at once you cant sit there and check the price of each item as they scan it and 9 times out of 10 you will get something priced wrong.

May seem like a pretty small issue and only a few $ worth at a time but it annoys the hell out of me and they dont really seem to care.

My opinions are purely my own and are not at all those of my employer 2degrees.

sbiddle

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#861821 18-Jul-2013 19:36

Toledo: I made a complaint recently to New World about this recently... Im sick of spending time shopping in supermarkets for products that have a good price on the shelf to find out later when looking at the invoice that I was charged normal price. When your buying 50 odd items at once you cant sit there and check the price of each item as they scan it and 9 times out of 10 you will get something priced wrong.

May seem like a pretty small issue and only a few $ worth at a time but it annoys the hell out of me and they dont really seem to care.

Which is the bonus of ESL tickets that are so common in Foodstuffs Wellington stores - it's virtually impossible* to have a difference between the checkout and ESL ticket.

* = I could tell you how but I'm not going to here.

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

mattwnz

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#861848 18-Jul-2013 20:49

Toledo: I made a complaint recently to New World about this recently... Im sick of spending time shopping in supermarkets for products that have a good price on the shelf to find out later when looking at the invoice that I was charged normal price. When your buying 50 odd items at once you cant sit there and check the price of each item as they scan it and 9 times out of 10 you will get something priced wrong.

May seem like a pretty small issue and only a few $ worth at a time but it annoys the hell out of me and they dont really seem to care.

Supermarkets are bad at pricing and errors. They also seem to be moving to the 'B' model, where everyday prices are really high, and they then discount them down to a more normal price, to get people buying htem. I mean who buys a can of baked beans for over $2, when they are often discounted down to $1. I think part of the problem is the duopoly in the food sector. But the NZ building sector is even worse, where many competing brands, are infact owned by the same parent company, which is often foreign owned anyway.

stagnant16

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#861875 18-Jul-2013 21:37

Supermarkets are bad at pricing and errors. They also seem to be moving to the 'B' model, where everyday prices are really high, and they then discount them down to a more normal price, to get people buying htem. I mean who buys a can of baked beans for over $2, when they are often discounted down to $1. I think part of the problem is the duopoly in the food sector. But the NZ building sector is even worse, where many competing brands, are infact owned by the same parent company, which is often foreign owned anyway.

The supermarkets wouldn't want you buying the $2 baked bean either as they would be more then likely losing on every sale, the supermarket industry is super competitive in NZ!

ahmad

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#861876 18-Jul-2013 21:38

mattwnz:
Toledo: I made a complaint recently to New World about this recently... Im sick of spending time shopping in supermarkets for products that have a good price on the shelf to find out later when looking at the invoice that I was charged normal price. When your buying 50 odd items at once you cant sit there and check the price of each item as they scan it and 9 times out of 10 you will get something priced wrong.

May seem like a pretty small issue and only a few $ worth at a time but it annoys the hell out of me and they dont really seem to care.

Supermarkets are bad at pricing and errors. They also seem to be moving to the 'B' model, where everyday prices are really high, and they then discount them down to a more normal price, to get people buying htem. I mean who buys a can of baked beans for over $2, when they are often discounted down to $1. I think part of the problem is the duopoly in the food sector. But the NZ building sector is even worse, where many competing brands, are infact owned by the same parent company, which is often foreign owned anyway.

Agree on both counts re supermarkets.

I was at Countdown earlier in the year and saw Anchor butter 500g at a whopping $6 (!!!!). Right next to it was the cheap budget brand "Rolling Meadows" for something ridiculous like $5.95.

This compares to Pak 'n Save where a "premium brand" would also sell at around $6 but the budget brand would be something more in the price range of $3.99 to $4.99.

However on a rotational basis Countdown discounts the Rolling meadows to almost half price at $2.99 (wow!). Incidentally the same bottom price level which P 'n S would discount to.

ahmad

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#861878 18-Jul-2013 21:39

stagnant16:
Supermarkets are bad at pricing and errors. They also seem to be moving to the 'B' model, where everyday prices are really high, and they then discount them down to a more normal price, to get people buying htem. I mean who buys a can of baked beans for over $2, when they are often discounted down to $1. I think part of the problem is the duopoly in the food sector. But the NZ building sector is even worse, where many competing brands, are infact owned by the same parent company, which is often foreign owned anyway.

The supermarkets wouldn't want you buying the $2 baked bean either as they would be more then likely losing on every sale, the supermarket industry is super competitive in NZ!

LOL come on....

keewee01

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#861927 18-Jul-2013 23:25

stagnant16:
Supermarkets are bad at pricing and errors. They also seem to be moving to the 'B' model, where everyday prices are really high, and they then discount them down to a more normal price, to get people buying htem. I mean who buys a can of baked beans for over $2, when they are often discounted down to $1. I think part of the problem is the duopoly in the food sector. But the NZ building sector is even worse, where many competing brands, are infact owned by the same parent company, which is often foreign owned anyway.

The supermarkets wouldn't want you buying the $2 baked bean either as they would be more then likely losing on every sale, the supermarket industry is super competitive in NZ!

I think you mean "super competitive"... ;)

I know 3 people whose immediate family members are store owners (6 stores all up if I recall) and it is very highly profitable - making the sort of money akin to what you would be making if you had a McDonalds franchise, and possibly more these days. Anyone who isn't is a poor manager/owner - and there are a few of those out there - will be raking the cash in.

mattwnz

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#861934 18-Jul-2013 23:47

stagnant16:
Supermarkets are bad at pricing and errors. They also seem to be moving to the 'B' model, where everyday prices are really high, and they then discount them down to a more normal price, to get people buying htem. I mean who buys a can of baked beans for over $2, when they are often discounted down to $1. I think part of the problem is the duopoly in the food sector. But the NZ building sector is even worse, where many competing brands, are infact owned by the same parent company, which is often foreign owned anyway.

The supermarkets wouldn't want you buying the $2 baked bean either as they would be more then likely losing on every sale, the supermarket industry is super competitive in NZ!

LOL, you are kidding right? NZ's food prices are some of the highest in the world for a reason, and the supermarket owners make very good money. Fruit and vege prices are also very high margin, the growers get very little. I often see our local stores owner driving around in their new audi. Heinz BB's are far cheaper at their normal price in the UK when I was there, works out at about $1.20 at current exchange rates.

sbiddle

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#861945 19-Jul-2013 06:21

mattwnz:LOL, you are kidding right? NZ's food prices are some of the highest in the world for a reason, and the supermarket owners make very good money. Fruit and vege prices are also very high margin, the growers get very little. I often see our local stores owner driving around in their new audi. Heinz BB's are far cheaper at their normal price in the UK when I was there, works out at about $1.20 at current exchange rates.

None of tbhis changes the fact that competition between the NZ supermarket chains is some of the most competitive you'll find anywhere in the world.

dickytim

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#861948 19-Jul-2013 06:44

Toledo: I made a complaint recently to New World about this recently... Im sick of spending time shopping in supermarkets for products that have a good price on the shelf to find out later when looking at the invoice that I was charged normal price. When your buying 50 odd items at once you cant sit there and check the price of each item as they scan it and 9 times out of 10 you will get something priced wrong.

May seem like a pretty small issue and only a few $ worth at a time but it annoys the hell out of me and they dont really seem to care.

I would more often than not find that New World Waiuku would have the wrong special tags on the wrong products.

I used to take them off on put them on the floor or hand them to the manager and tell them the tags were on the wrong product, I do feel that this was more down to stupidity of the staff members than a concerted effort to rip consumers off.

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