Daytime Running Lights to replace fog lights

Forums › Off topic › Daytime Running Lights to replace fog lights - legal?

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#984670 12-Feb-2014 00:11

jpoc:

I'll expand upon this one as the overtake on a straight road in broad daylight is a good situation to explain the masking effect on motorbikes.

I was doing some Google'ing today and I see that AA here in NZ agrees with you when it comes to visibility of things like motorbikes and cars using headlights in the day.

So do you feel the same way about Daylight Running Lights (so lower powered lamps to signal where a vehicle is on the road)?

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old3eyes

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#984738 12-Feb-2014 08:58

jarledb: I am considering adding daytime running lights to my car, and I have found what seems to be a good product that will replace the fog lights.

Anyone know if its allowed to remove factory fitted fog lights and replace them with daytime running lights in NZ?

While you're replacing you fog light pleaze remove the rear fog light bulbs as these thing are so bright they negate the use of stop lights..

Regards,

Old3eyes

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#985146 12-Feb-2014 14:46

old3eyes:
While you're replacing you fog light pleaze remove the rear fog light bulbs as these thing are so bright they negate the use of stop lights..

Think I will keep it in case I am in a thick fog and want to be seen by other drivers.

I don't drive around with it on.

It has proved useful in the past to get the bumper huggers to give me more room though.

Zippity

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#985182 12-Feb-2014 15:28

The whole purpose I drive on the open road with my headlights on during the day, is so that everyone (idiots included) can see me coming towards them.

If by chance they pull back in rather than overtake any vehicle coming towards me - great! Purpose achieved.

Idiots who drive with other than white forward pointing lights on, should NOT be allowed on the road.

My safety is paramount to me.

If you don't like my driving with headlights on (dipped of course) bad luck to you!

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#985318 12-Feb-2014 17:41

Always-on "Angel eyes" seem to be standard equipment on all late model BMWs, and they're bloody annoying.

Some motorcyclists deliberately leave their headlight on high beam at all times as it makes them more visible, they tend to get pretty grumpy when you point out that they are in fact dickheads for doing so, especially if you yourself are a motorcyclist..

@KnightNZ

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#986506 12-Feb-2014 23:09

I dont think the cops give a damn about lighting based on the number of woman driving BMW's with the rear fog light on, or the number of illegal HID kits in purple and other stupid things you see on many cars driving around blinding people with the totally useless beam pattern that is sending more light up and less on the road.

One thing I wish they would deal to is those stupid PWM dimmed tail lights that many older "fancy" cars have. The rules say no flashing lights so why do they allow those? Sure they may be 200-400Hz flashing so they appear solid when stationary and you dont move your head, but get them in the rear view mirror moving around and they keep looking like flashing red lights like on an ambo or similar.

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#986517 12-Feb-2014 23:34

richms: I dont think the cops give a damn about lighting

One thing I wish they would deal to is those stupid PWM dimmed tail lights that many older "fancy" cars have. The rules say no flashing lights so why do they allow those? Sure they may be 200-400Hz flashing so they appear solid when stationary and you dont move your head, but get them in the rear view mirror moving around and they keep looking like flashing red lights like on an ambo or similar.

I suspect that you are right. The LTNZ/NZTA spent years fiddling with Lighting Rules and the Police haven't bought into enforcement.

What cars with PWM are you thinking of? 200-400Hz seems too high to be noticeable. I have found references to BMW 30Hz systems that are OK with filament bulbs but no good with LED replacements.

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#986518 12-Feb-2014 23:37

Mainly European sports cars and some mercs seem to have it.

High enough to not be directly visible but add motion and maybe a vibrating mirror and they are super distracting. As bad as that damn back light in my lcd monitor when on anything but full brightness.

Richard rich.ms

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#986524 13-Feb-2014 00:24

jpoc:
jarledb: Unusual load vehicles should use hazard lights. In Norway they often have a follow vehicle at the front and the back of the unusual load vehicle.

When it comes to bikes, they use high beams most of the time in Norway and here in NZ (from what I understand) its mandatory to have the headlights on now.

I feel safer when passing a car in Norway because I know a possible meeting car/vehicle will have their headlights on and it is easier to see them than it is here in NZ.

I'll expand upon this one as the overtake on a straight road in broad daylight is a good situation to explain the masking effect on motorbikes.

You are about to overtake. Coming towards you is a motorbike followed at a distance by a car which is being followed by a truck. You note that there is oncoming traffic and you try to judge the distance to determine whether or not it is safe to overtake. Your brain does that clever parallax thing and throws in perception of size and rate of change in perceived size. The focus when you are doing that is probably on the car as being the most distinct object on the other side of the road. You may very well be conscious of the motorbike but your distance perception does not take it into account and you start to overtake.

Now let the motorbike have its light on. The bike's bright light is the most prominent item in your field of vision and your judgement of distance is now based on the position of the bike and you stay safe on your side of the road.

Finally, let the car driver have dipped headlights on. Your distance perception will now revert to the car and you will pull out.

It's hard to learn better behaviour in such a situation because that is the way that our minds work.

I don't know if you are serious or just trolling.

Here in Tauranga, when you are about to enter Kaimais there are multiple signs encouraging you to use the headlight day and night for safety. If you are truly against this, you might want to write a complain to NZTA.

I always turn my headlight on whenever I drive outside town on the open highway. It is for everyone safety on the road. I highly encourage everyone to have their headlights on at daytime especially in the open road.

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#986617 13-Feb-2014 10:14

Being a mobile technician, I'm on the road all day too.

Those of you who are saying lights on high beam during the day are distracting or blinding should probably see a doctor ASAP about Fatigue and avoid driving until the situation is properly remedied.

Yes, bright improperly aligned HID's during the night on open road or other are quite bad. Regular high beams are OK, but still quite distracting taking your focus off the road. But even the brightest improperly aligned HIDs should not impair your driving during broad daylight. The only light hazard during the day for me is severe sun strike.

Regarding the bouncing around in the rear view mirror and the issue on emergency services...You should be glancing at your rear view mirror every 10 seconds (a bit unreasonable in my opinion, but that's the requirement by law). If you don't hear them coming, you should be able to identify the crazy flashing red and blue lights no problem. They look vastly different to solid colourful HID bulbs

If you can't, you should not be driving.

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#986796 13-Feb-2014 15:33

DravidDavid: [snip] Regular high beams are OK,

They are unlawful when there is any chance of someone being blinded by them i.e. following other traffic, oncoming traffic, or a pointsman as linked earlier in the thread.

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#986893 13-Feb-2014 17:32

he was saying ok to look at, ie not blinding for him, not ok in respects to the law ie having them on in those situations :)

blakamin

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#986923 13-Feb-2014 18:01

DravidDavid:

Regarding the bouncing around in the rear view mirror and the issue on emergency services...You should be glancing at your rear view mirror every 10 seconds (a bit unreasonable in my opinion, but that's the requirement by law). If you don't hear them coming, you should be able to identify the crazy flashing red and blue lights no problem. They look vastly different to solid colourful HID bulbs

Try driving a semi sometime... if you spend half your time looking in mirrors, you'll have some moron car driver that decides that safety gap you've left in front is big enough for their car.
Not to mention the things you cant see when you're looking out of side mirrors. In bright daylight, in traffic, and using side mirrors, it's pretty hard to see flashing red and blue lights no matter what your eyesight situation is. Most of it is blocked by a trailer... and then go around a corner and halve your mirror capability.
And also while driving a semi, there's pretty much 45feet of sound-proofing behind you and a bloody big engine under you. Amazing what you can't hear in a truck.

Edit: Oh, and being a mobile technician is a hell of a lot different from driving a 45ton load 800-900km a day 6 days a week ;). Gimme a yell when you've done a million k's in under 5 years, and the 5 before that... :D

blakamin

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#986926 13-Feb-2014 18:07

Jase2985: he was saying ok to look at, ie not blinding for him, not ok in respects to the law ie having them on in those situations :)

They can be a serious distraction when they're bouncing all over the back-roads of NZ, even in a truck.
Actually, even SH1 isn't exactly smooth... ask anyone that's driven between Wellington and Taupo for the last, say, 20 years.

DravidDavid

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#986936 13-Feb-2014 18:36

blakamin:
DravidDavid:

Regarding the bouncing around in the rear view mirror and the issue on emergency services...You should be glancing at your rear view mirror every 10 seconds (a bit unreasonable in my opinion, but that's the requirement by law). If you don't hear them coming, you should be able to identify the crazy flashing red and blue lights no problem. They look vastly different to solid colourful HID bulbs

Try driving a semi sometime... if you spend half your time looking in mirrors, you'll have some moron car driver that decides that safety gap you've left in front is big enough for their car.
Not to mention the things you cant see when you're looking out of side mirrors. In bright daylight, in traffic, and using side mirrors, it's pretty hard to see flashing red and blue lights no matter what your eyesight situation is. Most of it is blocked by a trailer... and then go around a corner and halve your mirror capability.
And also while driving a semi, there's pretty much 45feet of sound-proofing behind you and a bloody big engine under you. Amazing what you can't hear in a truck.

Edit: Oh, and being a mobile technician is a hell of a lot different from driving a 45ton load 800-900km a day 6 days a week ;). Gimme a yell when you've done a million k's in under 5 years, and the 5 before that... :D

Can't say I've ever driven a semi, but I can average 200 or so kilometers per day. 24/7 baby! I travel between Warkworth, Auckland and Hamilton depending on what's on, so I've seen rough roads too. Surely in a truck, high beams and bright day lights shouldn't be such a problem being so high? I can see how the emergency services situation might be a bit tougher in a truck with all the different variables...But I was referring to those that drive passenger vehicles confusing blue HIDs with Police colours.

Idiots apply to me too! I feel the whole ten second rule is silly. Trying to judge distance and behavioral tendencies of the car in front of me and check that the car behind me isn't connecting with my tow bar can be a difficult balance some times.

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